Telling the RAC where you are

[dave1607]

Hi All

Me and the Mrs. were out at the weekend driving a few lanes and when we got to the end of one, we came across a couple with a broken down 110 TD5 (broken fan belt, shame it wasn't a 300TDI as I carry a spare), we stopped to see if we could help and found the chap on the phone to the RAC trying to explain where they were. They had no phone signal so couldn't use google maps etc. I got out the old OS map and showed them exactly where they were. He managed to describe to them where the start of the lane was (because it's by a pub) but the lane wasn't shown on the RAC's map (it's a BOAT), we offered the RAC an OS grid reference but that meant nothing to them. In then end the chap had to make his way back to the pub at the start of the lane to meet the RAC.

I just wandered if anyone else has had this problem and how you managed to get around it. It seems pretty poor that the maps the RAC use don't have the same detail as an OS map and that they are unable to use a grid reference to find you.

Dave

[Superpants]

I've had a similar problem with the police control room before. What we did was made sure they wrote in their notes a description- the person in the control room may well not have the local knowledge the guy coming out might have.

[o_teunico]

Today GPS systems are cheap enough. There are even DVR systems that will show in the video both speed and location. That way RAC will have your exact location.

As an example: the GlobalSat RV-1000S, for less than 100 Eur. delivered to your door (eBay). Not a navigator, but at least shows you the position (most DVR systems give GPS data trough PC software, but don´t show it in it´s own screen)

[dantastic]

I had to phone the AA 2 years ago out in France. I figured I'd just give them the GPS coordinates. But they couldn't do anything with them. Even asked the woman on the phone to stick the numbers into google maps and it would show her. Nope, she didn't have access to the internet on her computer.

I ended up having to give pretty shoddy instructions how to get to me, this was not an off road situation or anything! I still had to wait for the recovery truck at a larger road about a km trek away because they couldn't find me otherwise. I though it was an absolute disaster to be honest!

[o_teunico]

With the DVR system you can watch the recordered images and it will be like walking again over your footprints. You could tell the other person over the phone what have you seen to aid them to locate you.

[GBMUD]

Tomtom, Garmin etc. satnav systems usually have a function where they will tell you where you are.

Chris

[Early90]

I have the AA app on my phone, report your breakdown and they pin point you on a O.S map. I would have thought the RAC would have the same thing.

[dave1607]

We knew where we were but couldn't describe that to the RAC operator, they didn't seem to want to accept any kind of grid reference or coordinates, they just wanted a road name or a place name, we could have described a rout from the nearest town but it would have been so convoluted that there would have been little chance of them finding us.

I had just never realy considered that one day I might have to try and explain to someone, with no local knowledge, where I was, and happening accross a stranded couple trying to do exactly that made me think that their ability to find you is something that should be considered when choosing a breakdown company. Has anyone had any good experiences with a particular company, I'm with the AA but they were chosen purely on price. They were very good when the Mrs broke down once but that was on a major A road.

Dave

[dave1607]

I have the AA app on my phone, report your breakdown and they pin point you on a O.S map. I would have thought the RAC would have the same thing.

That's interesting, I'll have a look for that, I'm guessing that it relies on you having phone signal, but still sounds useful.

**Edit**

Sorry, meant to say 3G signal or some sort of data signal, if you had no signal you would have a job ringing them

[Guest]

ADAC accept grid references/GPS cord when we broke down in France I gave the GPS location as we were on a camp site they found us with no issues.

Jason

[Retroanaconda]

I had a similar issue with the emergency call centre recently. I came across a group of bikers on a minor hill road up in the forest, one of them had come off and broken his ankle pretty badly. They were struggling to explain to the lady on the phone where they were. In my work van I had various GPS devices and about a dozen OS maps so I was able to give our position to a very accurate resolution either in the form of an OS grid reference (which is what we use at work for almost everything as it gives an accuracy down to 1m if necessary and almost everyone knows how to use it) or even lat/long co-ordinates off one of the GPS devices.

However the woman on the other end of the phone wouldn't accept either of those forms of data, she just kept asking for the road name. Being a minor single-track hill road funnily enough it didn't have one! In the end I dug a timber haulage map out of the van which had the number of the road on it (was a C-class road so not labelled on most maps) and gave her that which finally satisfied her. I then went and met the ambulance at the junction with a more major (B) road and lead them up. Nightmare.

I couldn't understand why they couldn't take the information I was giving, I'm not familiar with the mapping system the emergency services or the AA use but I would be very surprised if it couldn't accept an input via an NGR or lat/long value. Perhaps it was just the person I happened to be speaking to, who knows.

[elbekko]

I had to phone the AA 2 years ago out in France. I figured I'd just give them the GPS coordinates. But they couldn't do anything with them. Even asked the woman on the phone to stick the numbers into google maps and it would show her. Nope, she didn't have access to the internet on her computer.

I ended up having to give pretty shoddy instructions how to get to me, this was not an off road situation or anything! I still had to wait for the recovery truck at a larger road about a km trek away because they couldn't find me otherwise. I though it was an absolute disaster to be honest!

I'd have told them to get someone on the phone that understands what a coordinate is...

They should be happy you're giving them coordinates, that way at least they don't end up in the wrong town or something.

[dailysleaze]

I have the AA app on my phone, report your breakdown and they pin point you on a O.S map. I would have thought the RAC would have the same thing.

I used this once and they said they couldn't use it to locate me. Then they asked if I would let them locate me via the mobile signal. Pretty clever stuff

[Happyoldgit]

I had a related experience last year when a tree fell into the road just ahead of me blocking the road completely. I rang the police non emergency number so they could co-ordinate with the local authority but the operator could not work with any of the coordinates given by my satnav but insisted on a road name which neither I or the satnav knew. There then followed a fairly comic ten minute discussion backtracking my route which ended up with us both laughing our heads off as it got more and more confusing.

[A Twig]

If you're on a cell phone to emergency services they can triangulate your cell to usually around ~300m in the worst case depending on reception and number of cell towers you're picking up. I don't know if RAC/AA etc can do the same?

[nickwilliams]

We've seen this problem occasionally with cave rescue call outs. It's exacerbated by the fact that emergency calls from a mobile phone go to one of a few national call centres, not necessarily one in the area from which the call originates, so the call handler has absolutely no idea about the area in which the caller is located.

The problem is that call centre's job is to pass calls on as quickly as possible so to speed things up they only work from post codes or similar simplified databases. The same appears to be true of the front line call handlers for some ambulance and fire services. The police (who have statutory responsibility for rescue) will work from a grid reference, but you need to ensure you are actually speaking to the local force, not to some national call triage centre.

I would have thought that the AA and RAC should know better, mind you.

[Pwyll]

I believe the AA use AA Routeplanner as their mapping system.

Having worked for an AA subcontractor, we always call the member direct to pinpoint their exact location. Sadly, I don't think this is common practice though. Being a local subcontractor does mean you tend to have a bit more local knowledge than an AA patrol so you can talk people through landmarks, where they have come from and where they are going to, etc.

I've never not found anyone yet. ;-)

[Ryan]

Most emergency service CAD systems work on a geofile system, whereby every incident has to match to a location within their database to enable the correct resource to be dispatched. When the location falls outside of the database is when the system falls down. I have used two completely different CAD systems and neither allow direct entry of a grid reference - you can input the data into the map providing you have the correct format, but you still need to force a location into the CAD.

[mickeyw]

I've been in this exact situation before, when on a walking trip in the more remote parts of Wales. Like the OP says, the RAC had no idea about grid refs, all they wanted was a post code, and I can't imagine long/lat would have been a lot of help either. We ended up giving turn by turn directions from the nearest town.

Hardly satifactory, but it got us out of trouble in the end.

[sean f]

If the primary tracking system won't allow a grid reference to be input I am surprised they don't have access to a system that does even if it is operated by a different person in the call centre (possible on an isolated PC if they have IT concerns). The software for this is pretty cheap and can be run on even the most basic laptop.

Getting a description of the route is all very good in a break down but in an emergency people don't always think straight and even in normal situtation some people are just hopeless at giving direction often forgetting that various turns are there as they never use them. This could cause a critical delay in some cases.

There was a lot of publicity down here in the South West a few years back about holiday home putting the grid reference next to the phone to allow faster tracking in an emergency, I expect this is pretty redundant how with caller id, I assume the emergency services if not the AA etc can pin point the location of any land line pretty much instantly.

[Dan110]

I assume the emergency services if not the AA etc can pin point the location of any land line pretty much instantly.

Yes, landlines are traced easily using billing information from BT but mobile's are a lot harder. In the countryside it might be more effective but in densely populated areas it's little use.

I use a 'no name' recovery service from my insurer who seem to use only local contractors. As Pwyll said - they tend to phone you direct and have the local knowledge so i've always found that works very well. Funnily enough the aa lady tried to convince me that this was a downside when I phoned to cancel my contract with them!

[Ed Poore]

Something I found out a while when mountaineering was that if you're phoning the emergency services from a mobile to use 112 not 999 as they can automatically triangulate you from the cell towers. Although use 999 from a land line as they can do reverse directory look up on those.

[Aragorn]

AFAIK that 112 vs 999 thing is a oft perpetuated myth.

Both numbers will connect you to the same emergency system when called from a mobile.

[Ed Poore]

Now you mention it I vaguely remember that being the case now but the 112 was being promoted as it works in Europe.

[Retroanaconda]

112 works in this country because Europe says it has to. It just redirects to the same service as 999. You can even dial 911 as well if so inclined I believe.

If you took your phone to France or anywhere else in Europe and dialled 999 it would just redirect to their 112 service.