mikec Posted May 17, 2013 Author Share Posted May 17, 2013 Does it make a difference using the relay board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 no, earths to ECU this cleans the signal The sensors opertae at very low levels, poor earths not via the ECU carry noise and give flase / poor readings, not sure but it is possible that the noise could then affect other things. In honesty there are guys here better than me (not difficult) on hi level electrics, but I know that not have CTS MAT back to ecu can cause issues. Others may be able to expand and add and put it better Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted May 17, 2013 Author Share Posted May 17, 2013 Mike When you say "Common" CTS and MAT sensor earths need to go to the earth bar on the ECU and THEN from the ecu to ground (battery) if your earths are NOT going back to the ECU then you will get poor quality signals The lambda has 2 whites, one is 12v Positive the other should be earthed to chassis, the balck to transmit and the grey to ECU earth Please advise Nige Ok just been to have a look, it's that long I'd forgotten. Mat and clt both earth to their designated slots on the relay board. Now when I was fitting I'd read the lambda needed to earth to ecu so, not been a specified earth on the realy board I doubled up on the clt earth so the lambda signal earth goes to clt earth too. The lambda heater earth goes to the main earth of the relay board, along with fuel pump earth and edis earth. The black lambda signal wire goes to the O2 connection on the relay board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazza Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Ah sat in it with the radio on having a look at the laptop, and notice I'm getting interference when I switch the ignition. It's not always done this and the only thing I've done since is fit the wb. So disconnected the wb and the tps guage and radio are fine, not sure what's going on there, but the wb wiring follows a fairly thick wire to the dash, which feeds the radio. Cheers guys From my reading on this subject and using my limited knowledge, the radio cable may be noisy and affecting the sensor current. In fact any sensor wire must not be placed near a noisy source and must be physically separated from them. An alternative is to shield the sensor wire with a metal sheath to protect it from emf. If you tune a transistor radio off-channel and put it near a suspect source, you will hear the noise on the radio speaker; this should enable you to plan where to put all sensor cables where they can't be affected, Cheers Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 All the earths go from the relay board, two or three. Can you just confirm this? How many earth cables do you have going from ECU to the relay board and at what size? Where is the earth to the battery connected and with what size cable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 Can you just confirm this? How many earth cables do you have going from ECU to the relay board and at what size? Where is the earth to the battery connected and with what size cable? I bought the kit second hand so the cable between the ecu and the relay board had already been made so don't know what there is there. So off the relay board there's two earth wires, there soldered onto the relay board. These go to an earth block inside the case, the lambda earth then go to the earth block too along with edis earth and fuel pump earth. From this a cable goes from that too the battery, I think it was about 6mm2 cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Cool stuff - it's likely that it is OK, but let's stick an 'unknown' label on the relay board to ECU cable. If there was a problem here, I'd expect to see spikes in other sensors readings as well. So next you need to replace the TPS with a new/known good item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 Ok fitted another tps and been out for a drive. Doesn't seem to drive much different. Tps calibration values were similar to above, forgot to note them but something like 14/257 Also did a quick datalog to show the flatspot, not sure if it will show anything or not but cant do any harm. Datalogs to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 Just having a look through the datalog, got a few "odd" values in the tpsacc, like 1e+08. What's a standard range for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 datalogs datalog201305181042nigemapnewtpscutdown.xls datalog201305181104flatspot.xls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 ER WTF !It would help if you explained a bit with the dtat logs as to how long and what you did etc etc This log looks like the engine was sitting and hunting up and down from 400-1700 RPM and not much else ? Is that the case ? I haven't had a good look at the file, as I think we need to remove the PWM from the system. Unplugs and REMOVE the PWM unit completely, find a solid lump of steel and then insert the solid lump between the 2 hoses. then do a data log say 10 mins - all sorts of driving and post up with info and what the issues are when you drove for that period. Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 ER WTF !It would help if you explained a bit with the dtat logs as to how long and what you did etc etc This log looks like the engine was sitting and hunting up and down from 400-1700 RPM and not much else ? Is that the case ? I haven't had a good look at the file, as I think we need to remove the PWM from the system. Unplugs and REMOVE the PWM unit completely, find a solid lump of steel and then insert the solid lump between the 2 hoses. then do a data log say 10 mins - all sorts of driving and post up with info and what the issues are when you drove for that period. Nige Ok first was about a 20 min drive round town and on a dual carriageway for a little some flooring it and some gentle(ish) driving. Second datalog is just as you said, no driving just sat their blipping the throttle, thought it might show something up with regards to the flatspot. Pwm hasn't been on since I first had problems at installation. All blanked off etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Also Can you confirm CTS and MAT are they now to the ECU earths ? and is there shielded VR cable from VR to Module Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 Issues still the same, cold starting none existent, ( though I can live with that for the time being), the main problem is the kangorooing, happens at a steady throttle, mainly at low revs but I've also felt it at about 30mph, 2k rpm. And the flatspot, but I have a feeling, with no evidence to back it up, those two are symptoms of the same issue?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Mike I have emailed you A MSQ I wnat you to load and try and report on This way I know every setting is as it should be with the ECU Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 AlsoCan you confirm CTS and MAT are they now to the ECU earths ? and is there shielded VR cable from VR to Module Nige Cts and mat go to their designated earths on the relay board, and yes shielded VR cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 You WILL have probs cold starting with a PWM Control, so bin that issue for a mo Hunting is often a mechanical issue. Either an air leak if really bad, or a combo of spark and fuelling making it hunt and drop. Load the new MSQ in I have send, get the engine warm, and THEN report on what it does tickover wise Without PWM control it WILL hunt untill warm which is 72 degres + Also under 72 D you are on WUE tables, if they aren't spot on added to no Pwm and maybe out on spark and fuelling /.......... One step at a time. Load MSQ sent and report back WHEN WARMED UP Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 I'd sorted the hunting at idle issue before by increasing the idle cells in the ve table a bit. Tried the wd40 thing all over for air leaks, even took the manifold off and new gasket resealed everything etc, so pretty hopeful there's no issue there. Been out and tried that map Nige, datalog to follow, it's worse to drive than the old map. Again acceleration etc is fine, but steady throttle kangorooing is worse, doing it almost all the time, also does it if I accelerate then steady off, for example out of a side road accelerates fine but when I lift off to change gear it's like the engine stops for a split second, the same thing happens when I reach 30mph, tends to do the same stalling but then starts kangorooing as I try to keep a steady speed. This is the only thing I've found that sounds similar on the google http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=34866 Post number three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 cheers mike datalog2013051812014.6masterfile.xls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Don't go gallopping off on Firmware changes HiRes Code and other HiBrow things, its something basic OK I wnat you get the engine warm, and then drive in for a couple of mins JUST in thearea that is causing the issues datalogging that only switch on datalogging as your about to kangerroooo ...nothing more nothing less JUST the kangerrooing area What are the plugs and leads ? Make and how old ? What fuel piump are you using ? What the history on the injectors ?. are they known fab (pre squirting) or of unknown "think they are OK vinatge ?? With eothetr of the 2 MSQs when its WARM does it tick over, if not then tell me which MSQ you think is better generally and then click on the Spark table and write down RPM vs MAP cell numbers that it goes in and out of then go into VE table and do the same Do a screen dump of both VE table and Spark table and post the hole tlot up Slowly slowly catchy monkey, stay away from Megasquirt search engine, you diagnose a common cold as Fatal Siberian Dancing Monkey Upper Respiritory Syndrome K I S S nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 Slowly slowly catchy monkey, stay away from Megasquirt search engine, you diagnose a common cold as Fatal Siberian Dancing Monkey Upper Respiritory Syndrome K I S S nige Haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 Don't go gallopping off on Firmware changes HiRes Code and other HiBrow things, its something basicOK I wnat you get the engine warm, and then drive in for a couple of mins JUST in thearea that is causing the issues datalogging that only switch on datalogging as your about to kangerroooo ...nothing more nothing less JUST the kangerrooing area What are the plugs and leads ? Make and how old ? What fuel piump are you using ? What the history on the injectors ?. are they known fab (pre squirting) or of unknown "think they are OK vinatge ?? With eothetr of the 2 MSQs when its WARM does it tick over, if not then tell me which MSQ you think is better generally and then click on the Spark table and write down RPM vs MAP cell numbers that it goes in and out of then go into VE table and do the same Do a screen dump of both VE table and Spark table and post the hole tlot up Slowly slowly catchy monkey, stay away from Megasquirt search engine, you diagnose a common cold as Fatal Siberian Dancing Monkey Upper Respiritory Syndrome K I S S nige Ok new plugs, the bprs ones?? The ones that are always recommended by uou on here, brand new when I started, THINK, I gapped them to 1mm, again I searched to death on here and followed the advice given. Leads, not sure, bought them from Dave remember, but they looked new. Blue in colour, think he said he'd bought them from the us or something. Fuel pump a new in tank one, again can't rember part number off my head, but prc something or other, again, the one reccomemended on here to fit with ms. Injectors are just shoved on from an old engine I bought for the front cover, was supposed to be a running engine when I bought it but it was then stood for a year before fitting. Gave them a clean up in some petrol before fitting. Other than that, nothing. I have checked to see if they were operating before by using the screwdriver to the ear method to hear them clicking, all seemed to be. Ill check the idling to see which one is best. Will go out and give it a go now. Cheers Nige. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 Tried the two msq's, I wouldn't say there was much difference in idle between them to be honest, no huge difference anyway. http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f257/little_landy/C6CDA814-41E1-4394-B713-64C0C35904B1-18327-00000DF52C71D513.mp4 http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f257/little_landy/6D51D06F-3B45-41E8-B18C-2A7070116212-18327-00000DF6CE858766.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 datalog of it kangorooing, datalog201305181308k2.xls datalog201305181308k2.xls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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