MogLite Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 I enjoy building more than competitions etc So now I've driven MogLite - it might be time to plan its sucessor. I have all of Jez's old fag packets, and a bunch of pencils stolen from work - but that is the stage we are at at the moment. Some of this engineering might be a little out of the box, but anyone who knows me - will never have seen me in my box Believe it or not this was a influence and this is too I'm thinking a spine chassis, with an outboard engine at each corner Stick with me...... Replace the prop with a wheel and tyre - obviously Plenty of power Individual steering available to each wheel Pretty waterproof Quite small wheels like the Zook but wider (I doubt the outboard will cope with 44's) Very light No cab as such but a "Harley Davidson" riding position over the spine chassis Mount each engine on a hydro ram and employ a self leveling suspension Obviously there are issues such as water cooling the engines but I don't think there is anything insurmountable and thats the basics covered Anyone got 4 matched outboards kicking around, something around the 75 horse mark ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Vince....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Having driven quite a few RIBs, i'm guessing you'll have fun with gearbox ratios, props spin a lot faster than tyres. four gear levers? that'll be fun! i suppose bowden cables will get them all in the right place. balancing throttles could be interesting. looked at full hydro drive? Hope you're not on a windup Luke Edit: the more i sit here thinking about this, the more i think Andy's having a laugh, or needs to sit down and have a nice warm mug of cocoa and get some sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Nurse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Mad! Completely mad! And I get the impression he's not pulling anyones dangly bits either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Andy, the men in white coats are on their way over Seriously, it sounds like it could work but there's plenty of work left to do to Moglite before it could even be called finished! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 there's plenty of work left to do to Moglite before it could even be called finished! Pot........ Kettle?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 I love it - the motorcycle type 'riding' approach especially. Kind of like a glorified quad on portals! What about protection in a roll? (Jump off?!?). Seems to me the only real problem is gearing & speed matching. Maybe your 'handlebars' could not actually turn ANYTHING, but instead they could differentiate wheel speeds via a handlebar position sensor - so there aren't even any pivoted joints to worry about at the wheels? (Offroad only, of course). Steering is for losers! Maybe mount each outboard on a double wishbone type arrangement with an air ram/bag or hydro ram to control position for forced articulation etc? Bit of sensing and you could switch between modes - automatic levelling for sideslopes/hills, low & fast for those high speed racing sections etc etc... Hmmm... Al. - juices flowing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 You guys wait until SimonR sees this, then there will be trouble; stealing all his best ideas like that! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MogLite Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 Having driven quite a few RIBs, i'm guessing you'll have fun with gearbox ratios, props spin a lot faster than tyres.four gear levers? that'll be fun! i suppose bowden cables will get them all in the right place. balancing throttles could be interesting. looked at full hydro drive? Hope you're not on a windup Luke Edit: the more i sit here thinking about this, the more i think Andy's having a laugh, or needs to sit down and have a nice warm mug of cocoa and get some sleep. I've had a kip....... Gearing I haven't researched yet - not insurmountable Full hydro would have massive heat disappation issues Fly-by-wire style throttle control Wind-up - no just a engineering sounding board at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 I'm reckoning Outboard gearbox/output bearings are all about thrust, they take no load across them, unless you've got a buggered prop, the vibration from one of them shags pretty much everything. the output shaft is pretty thin, certainly less than a stub axle, it's also not very long, as well as being pretty much under the engine. Cooling would be a complete re-plumb, as the engine sucks water from the bottom of the leg, circulates it round the engine and spits it out through the middle of the prop. how nicely you could convert it to normal pipes i don't know. most modern outboards are 4stroke EFI, so with some sort of closed loop control speed control should be do-able. I've looked and an 80HP (Yamaha) outboard weighs 170 Kg, 680Kg for four corners. the leg probably isn't designed for any sort of force apart from it's traditional push, neither is the mounting bracket. putting the engine on a new drop shaft and gearbox might work, but that must be mucho $$$$. I'm guessing this is purely as a rock crawler type thing? the speed variation with one gear is going to be pretty low. you don't get a clutch either. Luke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 i would have though this would have been the technology to play with four wheel steer, spool valve control. nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 i would have though this would have been the technology to play with four wheel steer, spool valve control. nice. My mate drives a stradle carrier in southampton docks. there only good for 26mph but you can still get them sidways in the wet... and there good for 100ton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Gear ratio on my outboard = 2:1 (fairly standard) WOT gives 6000rpm or at least it would if I binned the restrictor so that's 3000rpm at the prop Assuming a 7.50x16 thats a 32" tyre which is 100" circumference 100/12 x 3000 = 25000 feet/min = 4.73 miles per minute = 284 miles per hour Edited to add that if you are using outboards it should probably be quoted in knots which means 246kt You trying to overtake Hamster for the "fastest ever car accident" record? Could be "something of an engineering challenge" but I'd love to see the final result given what you've done with Moglite which has gotta be one of the coolest things on four wheels anywhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Pretty waterproof well apart from the engines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Epicyclic reduction at the hub could take the top speed down to a much more respectable level and give much better low-down torque. Also means you take load off the driveshaft as it spins faster not harder. Lack of clutch is a bit of an issue but I'm sure something can be sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Pot........ Kettle?? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not starting yet, though. Only planning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 agreed, something like an epicyclic on the end of the drive shaft would be good for both lowering speed and hiding the outboard's driveline from high torque, it'd require some hefty fabbing to mount the whole lot, i'm not sure that the outboard leg would take that, or the abuse of actually driving over anything. the Yamaha quoted above has a gear ratio of 13:30, so it'd have to be quite a big epicyclic! I'd reckon the radiator would have to be huge, outboards have the luxury of billions of gazillions of water at low temperature ( pretty much always lower than ambient) and they need it, due to running in an insulated box. Ho hum, sounds like fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Sounds nice Andy Is this for you or Jamie so he can follow behind Moglite The only problem with boat outbaords is that they are not water proof and cost a bloody fortune (even second Hand). You are in the center of the worlds boating , where you live , but that does not make them any cheaper. When you buy a boat/ dingy the boat is the cheap bit the engine is the very expensive bit. If you buy an older one, then it will sap the fuel like no tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 agreed, something like an epicyclic on the end of the drive shaft would be good for both lowering speed and hiding the outboard's driveline from high torque, it'd require some hefty fabbing to mount the whole lot, i'm not sure that the outboard leg would take that, or the abuse of actually driving over anything.the Yamaha quoted above has a gear ratio of 13:30, so it'd have to be quite a big epicyclic! I'd reckon the radiator would have to be huge, outboards have the luxury of billions of gazillions of water at low temperature ( pretty much always lower than ambient) and they need it, due to running in an insulated box. Ho hum, sounds like fun Don't know if the gearbox in an outboard would take it . I mean one of the quickest way to kill an outboard gearbox is to jump it out of the water and then land it back in the water with the revs still up.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Sounds nice AndyIs this for you or Jamie so he can follow behind Moglite The only problem with boat outbaords is that they are not water proof and cost a bloody fortune (even second Hand). You are in the center of the worlds boating , where you live , but that does not make them any cheaper. When you but a boat/ dingy the boat is the cheap bit the engine is the very expensive bit. If you buy an older one, then it will sap the fuel like no tomorrow. Very true, if you buy a new 6 metre-ish RIB, the £20,000 odd required for something like a Ribcraft 5.85 is split about 50/50 between the engine and all the rest of the boat if you are talking a 140hp. Even an 80hp is seven grand new - multiply by four Fuel consumption: my 115 is a 2 stroke carbed engine and at full throttle will see off the 90 odd litre tank in about an hour and a half I think... Outboards don't often have a long and happy life either so finding four good ones could be a struggle.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 You could rotate/tilt the outboard to raise/lower the "arm". TBH it's sounding like outboards would not work out any easier/cheaper/better than using full hydrostatic drive and going for the crop-sprayer approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MogLite Posted September 26, 2006 Author Share Posted September 26, 2006 TBH it's sounding like outboards would not work out any easier/cheaper/better than using full hydrostatic drive and going for the crop-sprayer approach. Alas it seems you are right in your conclusion - still at least Will Warne agreed with me, which was largely the point of the thread. I'm so vain, and hero worship is so flattering You alright Will ? B) But I still maintain the layout is worth investigating. I would say motorcycle engine at each corner. Chain drive "down a leg" could get you gearing and torque. Steering and suspension wouldn't be very difficult - just the lack of reverse gear is making me stumble at the moment. Where can I find 4x Honda Goldwing engines and gearbox's - they've got reverse haven't they ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Steering and suspension wouldn't be very difficult - just the lack of reverse gear is making me stumble at the moment.Where can I find 4x Honda Goldwing engines and gearbox's - they've got reverse haven't they ? Just rotate the whole engine/gearbox through 180degrees for reverse - go just as fast backwards. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 GL1500 has a spur to engage the startermotor for reverse or....... use a Dnepr/Ural/Urinal engine and box - they have a power shuttle that throws the entire box into reverse (backwards on a bike is not easy!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.