red90 driver Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 OK, i'm going to throw this one to the wolves........ Take a 200TDi defender that does some occaisional winch comps, green laning and p&p days. We need *want* more low down grunt as the turbo takes a bit of winding up, esp. starting off on steep up hill sections.... We have fitted a larger intercooler and had the fueling slightly tweeked. The boost is being upped in the near future. Will these mods give us more immediate power from tickover? I was wondering if any one has experience with swapping to a modern variable vane turbo. From what I know of these units, they will boost from much lower revs and also boost for a much longer period. What turbo would fit (if any)? Is there any fancy electronics required for boost control? How would the defender cooling system cope, as I assume that the turbo would be water cooled, not oil? Any help would be appreciated......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 A tweak on the pump definitely helps the bottom end as the turbo wakes up that much earlier and then once you are getting boost you get more fuel and more boost and more fuel and more boost and so on.... Ideally it wants to be set to smoke a fair bit off boost for the best pickup. Be interested in any VNT conversions though, I'm surprised somebody hasn't transplanted the 2.8TGV one onto a Tdi as that must be mechanical. Or maybe they have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red90 driver Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 Hmmm....... Too much smoke attracts plod though. Plus winchman would get a face full of diesel smog on the way in.... I had heard that a turbo from the mondeo would work / fit............ 2.8 TGV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Be interested in any VNT conversions though, I'm surprised somebody hasn't transplanted the 2.8TGV one onto a Tdi as that must be mechanical. Or maybe they have? A few have tried it and it works. Its not a terribly difficult conversion. Tweeked up you'll easily see 170 bhp and 320 lb/ft all low down. With all that low down grunt your gearbox won't last very long especially in a comp machine. Guess how I know I'm not trying to be negitive but you will have to treat LT77s as a service item! If you want to stay manual you really should get a TVR speced R380 short box built or get an HP24 spec autobox buildup. I chose the later and it's superb. Another option to consider are propane injection (if the engine's fairly low mileage) or if you realy want to be naughty do both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yak Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 OK, i'm going to throw this one to the wolves........Take a 200TDi defender that does some occaisional winch comps, green laning and p&p days. We need *want* more low down grunt as the turbo takes a bit of winding up, esp. starting off on steep up hill sections.... We have fitted a larger intercooler and had the fueling slightly tweeked. The boost is being upped in the near future. Will these mods give us more immediate power from tickover? I was wondering if any one has experience with swapping to a modern variable vane turbo. From what I know of these units, they will boost from much lower revs and also boost for a much longer period. What turbo would fit (if any)? Is there any fancy electronics required for boost control? How would the defender cooling system cope, as I assume that the turbo would be water cooled, not oil? Any help would be appreciated......... Try www.allardturbosport.co.uk. They do a Garret turbo which I believe is a variable vane job to give a bit more low down grunt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Try www.allardturbosport.co.uk. They do a Garret turbo which I believe is a variable vane job to give a bit more low down grunt... However they want mucho ££££ for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 2.8TGV turbo is a straight fit really to a TDI I have pictures of the job done But to get what you are after is relatively easy with what you have. fuelling and boost increases will give you all you need IMHO smoke screw and star wheel adjustments will bring the increase in fuel earlier as you want. too much boost will pop headgaskets. yesterday we managed long hill climbs on loose surface with relative ease ,by starting in low 2nd full revs and drop the clutch, never ran out of power and made good progress. spending on VNT and propane would be an expensive way to go IMHO for your needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 spending on VNT and propane would be an expensive way to go IMHO for your needs. Very true. A fuel pump and boost tweek is free, if it doesn't work then VGT is something to look at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red90 driver Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 OK, thanks all. I think we'll go with the quick and dirty method of turning the boost up and tweeking the other settings. We'll leave the VNT stuff for when we blow the turbo......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 wind the star wheel in 2-3 turns and remove the plastic collar under the diaphragm as as start point, you'll be surprised with the results. Ideally an EGT gauge is required to avoid meltdowns. No matter what people say an EGT gauge is worth every penny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dlander Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Andy has written a piece on EGT gauge use you can find it here http://www.red-ibex.com/EGTgauge.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 OK, i'm going to throw this one to the wolves........Take a 200TDi defender that does some occaisional winch comps, green laning and p&p days. We need *want* more low down grunt as the turbo takes a bit of winding up, esp. starting off on steep up hill sections.... We have fitted a larger intercooler and had the fueling slightly tweeked. The boost is being upped in the near future. Will these mods give us more immediate power from tickover? I was wondering if any one has experience with swapping to a modern variable vane turbo. From what I know of these units, they will boost from much lower revs and also boost for a much longer period. What turbo would fit (if any)? Is there any fancy electronics required for boost control? How would the defender cooling system cope, as I assume that the turbo would be water cooled, not oil? Any help would be appreciated......... What size tyres are you running Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=1298 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 What turbo would fit (if any)? A mate fitted one off an Alfa Romeo. Not sure if they're much common over there though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red90 driver Posted September 26, 2006 Author Share Posted September 26, 2006 What size tyres are you running At the moment, 265/75/16 Grizzly's About to go to 35/14.5/16 Pitbulls for winch comps, and for general use 35/12/16 pro-comp muds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 At the moment, 265/75/16 Grizzly'sAbout to go to 35/14.5/16 Pitbulls for winch comps, and for general use 35/12/16 pro-comp muds. that what i thought. I had a 200 Tdi 90 that had the same problem.2nd low was now too high and 1st was still too low for hill climbs. What then happens is you strat to slip the clutch to get the turbo to kick in quicker, which then makes you burn the clutch out quicker But i did not want to play with the engine too much as it was not new, and did not want to put too much stress on it So one option is the change the gearing . , go for an earley 2.5 petrol 90 transfer box gears. They are lower and will sort some of the problem out Beyond that you will find the best result is to change the diff ring and pinions to 4.1's or higher. But doing that does affect the road manours as well as off road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 TC gears are all the same in low range, only high range will get lower. A diff ratio swap is the solution to lower gearing (cheapish) or crawler gears or a crawler box (expensive) Tweak the pump. Grem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 adjusting the star wheel will bring the extra fuel in for less boost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthdicky Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 , go for an earley 2.5 petrol 90 transfer box gears. They are lower and will sort some of the problem out They're not, 2.5 petrol 110 boxes are lower in high range but 90 boxes are the same as TDi's etc. Low range is the same in all of them. Anyone know what the new (2007?) box ratios are? LRO mentioned low range being different, but if the main box 1st is lower I guess they've raised it a bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 LR probably won't release these type of figures until the 2007 vehices are on sale, it has a 6 speed main gearbox too & a revised LT230 transfer box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 2.5P 90s are 1.4 t/box same as Tdis. 2.5P 110s are 1.667 same as 2.5D I think I read somewhere the new 2.4 Fraud engine will have a 1.2 t/box so 6th gear in that is gonna be a "downhill with a following wind" job.... Does anybody know what the new engine is going to be called yet? Can't be the Td4 as that already exists. Maybe it will go back to Tdi again Or be called the TDFraud as its the first non LR diesel engine in a Defender.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Ford call it the 'DuraTorq' IIRC so maybe LR will pick up on the DT bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Could be - it would neatly be the same initials as Diesel Turbo too Still think it should have been about 3 litres though, the late 1990s 3.0TD out of the Landcruiser would be a nice fit.... (sacrilege I know!) Getting back vaguely On Topic does the TDFraud have a VVT or not? I guess so in this day and age....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Just Googled this for the Duratorq engine Ford TRANSIT 2.4 TDCI VAN RANGE Monday March 13 (First written on 2006-01-16) Fords 2.4-litre TDCI Is Top Of The Transit Engine Range And Could Well Be The Best Powerplant In The Whole Panel Van Sector. Steve Walker Reports Panel vans are getting more powerful. These days the majority of the markets major players offer an engine that produces in excess of 130bhp and some go substantially beyond that. Fords Transit has been the UKs favourite panel van since many of todays beer-bellied builders were in nappies but to maintain this position of dominance, Ford needed a big hitting powerplant to top off the Transit range. The result is a 2. 4-litre TDCI DuraTorq engine. It boasts 135bhp and, as its name might suggest, a whole bundle of torque. Its torque that the canny van driver values above all else. Power is great for performance cars but when youve a tonne and a half of ballast on the back of your van and a long incline to negotiate, its torque that will see you through without the need for frenzied cog swapping. Ford obviously know the score and they set the boffins at their Centre for Diesel Excellence in Dagenham to work creating a torque laden commercial vehicle powerplant. The 2. 4-litre TDCI unit is certainly that. Other large panel vans have engines that trump it for power but when it comes to torque, it talks the talk and walks the walk. The TDCIs peak power of 135bhp arrives at 3,500rpm and the full 375Nm of torque flows forth at a usefully low 1,900rpm. These characteristics bestow a new, more relaxed character on even a fully loaded Transit. Theres ample urge for getting swiftly off the line or pulling out into traffic, the number of gearchanges required is reduced and any mountains you come across are made to feel more like molehills. Compare this engines power and torque to that of large panel van competitors and you can see where Fords engineers have been so successful. A 136bhp Renault Master van produces 326Nm maximum torque, a 156bhp Mercedes Sprinter rustles up 336Nm and even Volkswagens 158bhp LT model can only manage 331Nm. The 2. 4 TDCI Transit is less powerful than the lot of them but none can match its torque. Only VWs mid-sized Transporter panel van with its 174bhp 2.5-litre engine manages to eclipse the Transit with thumping 407Nm. "when it comes to torque, it talks the talk and walks the walk." The six-speed gearbox that accompanies the 2.4-litre TDCI engine was designed for the purpose and Ford tell us that it helps reduce noise while improving fuel economy. It does provide a nice slick gearchange but its a sign of the times that its floor-mounted position feels slightly strange. The current trend is for panel van gear levers to be repositioned onto dashboards and most of the Transits more modern competitors have taken this step. The floor-mounted gear lever still serves its purpose, but the dash-mounted alternative provides improved cross-cabin access and a shorter throw shifting action that many drivers favour. The 6th ratio on the Transit is useful for motorway cruising where it makes the engines work easier and does cut down on noise. Despite being the most powerful, the 2.4 TDCI is also the Transits quietest engine by some margin. Average fuel economy of 32mpg is achievable and consumption doesnt fluctuate too wildly whether youre around town (24mpg urban average) or on longer trips (39mpg extra urban average). The Ford Transit range is probably the most complex and varied of any UK market panel van. On one hand, it could take an age for buyers to evaluate all the options and settle on the derivative they want. On the other, the diversity of products is such that once youve pinpointed a model, it should be well suited to your requirements. The range centres around three wheelbases and three roof heights which are available in various combinations. Then theres the extra long, high-roof van that Ford have christened Jumbo. Furthermore, the Transit is also available in front or rear-wheel drive form, although the 2.4-litre TDCI powerplant were considering here is rear-wheel drive only. Heavier duty models are available with double rear wheels to help spread the load and theres Fords Durashift EST automatic transmission should you feel like taking things easy. We wont even go into the minibus and chassis cab options. Ford fit ABS brakes with electronic brakeforce distribution as standard but the stability control thats offered on many rival models is not available. The reason for this, Ford rather cockily claim, is that the Transit doesnt need it. The vehicle was designed to be inherently stable and even if it is loaded in a particularly haphazard and unbalanced way, most drivers would have an extremely tough job turning it over. The powers that be within Ford have also deemed that where other manufacturers fit brake discs all round, the Transit settles for front discs up front and drums at the rear. Braking performance is not noticeably impinged on by this and its another few pounds off the Transit list prices. Costs are key with this type of vehicle and Ford are obviously keen to keep them down, though not at the expense of the Transits functionality. The load bay is well designed, square with a low loading lip, to allow the simple stowage of even the bulkiest cargo. Theres minimal wheelarch intrusion and the doors provide wide access points. In the cab, the Transit doesnt feel as fresh as it once did - the switches, stereo and seat adjustment controls reminiscent of 1990s Ford passenger cars. Everything is well laid out and functions admirably but the panel van market has moved on since the Transit was last refreshed and competitors offer considerably more modern interiors. The 2.4-litre TDCI engine in Fords Transit is an impressive piece of work and certainly right up with the finest panel van engines in todays marketplace. Its offered at a sizable premium over other Transit powerplants but fuel economy is similar and if you plan on regularly using your models full payload capacity, the benefits outweigh the costs. Overall, the Transit is still a formidable package. Although the cab interior ambiance is now bettered by many rivals, the build quality and user-friendly design remain strong. The range is mind-bogglingly diverse but it does mean that buyers with specialist requirements should be able find a Transit that suits them. Its hard to see Fords stalwart panel van relinquishing its grasp on the top of the sales charts any time soon. FACTS AT A GLANCE VAN: Ford Transit 2.4 TDCI range ENGINE: 2.4-litre DuraTorq TDCI POWER: 135bhp @ 3,500rpm TORQUE: 375Nm @ 1,900rpm FUEL ECONOMY: 24.4mpg (urban), 38.7mpg (extra urban) 32.5mpg (combined) GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHTS: 3300kg 3500kg Send by Messenger Email this article PrintMore news and reviews from Ford More motoring news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 . Only VWs mid-sized Transporter panel van with its 174bhp 2.5-litre engine manages to eclipse the Transit with thumping 407Nm. we have one of these- and oh my word is it quick. It comes with a six speed box does 45mpg up the motorway when loaded and goes like stink. we took it to france recently and it hit the rev limiter in 6th at 131mph indicated on the Tomtom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! in a fecking van. it also felt completely stable too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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