dirtydiesel Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 Made a little progress today, Standard injectors fit in the holes in the heads but there is not a lot of space for the electrical plugs. http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Gmogger/media/DSC_0210_zps4e78b622.jpg.html'> Injector rail has arrived and is all measured up for drilling http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Gmogger/media/DSC_0211_zps9ca0612c.jpg.html'> And I've modified my throttle body to accept a tps off a BMW 540, I have to trim it a little more off the tps yet to get a good fit but this one is only borrowed I have a new one coming tomorrow so I'll butcher that one. http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Gmogger/media/DSC_0212_zpsff2292c4.jpg.html'> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Looking good Dan, judging from pic, the rotation of the first injector from the left looks to have best room for connector? I've actually come to think, that there was a guy running Formula Offroad in a G-Wagon looking thing that had a G- axles and a big Merc V8. Was terribly underpowered though compared to the Yanks, but not sure it ever did run properly.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 I don't think the merc lump could ever hold a candle to a 1000hp chevy though! One of the driving forces behind putting the merc v8 in my gwagon is, when I first started to look beyond land rovers somewhere around 2002-2003 I went and spectated at a few of the bigger challenge events around the UK, I remember watching Steve Lloyd, and Tony Baskill in their v8 powered g wagons the effortless torque was quite awesome. For the most part they didn't break anything and they were winning most events as well, It was these 2 vehicles that set me on the path I am still walking today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearos Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Are there any known temp sensors that are m14x1.5, as I have a few old sensor holes I could use! Quick Google reveals this (unless I've misunderstood) - http://www.vwheritage.com/vw_spares_Coolant-Temperature-Sensor-M14x1-5-2-pin-white-035919369M_act_shop.product_pID_33465593_lang_EN_country_GB.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 No progress today other than shearing one of the inlet manifold bolts. This is the style of jt connectors I need, I don't have enough room to fit the standard type,Also would I be better using the same sensor for both the ect and the iat?I seem to remember Roger (istruggletogate11) having issues with his iat sensor picking up the rapid drop in temp when wading and over fueling, I think he over came this by fitting the iat in the snorkel head? Any thoughts on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_B Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 I seem to remember Roger (istruggletogate11) having issues with his iat sensor picking up the rapid drop in temp when wading and over fueling, I think he over came this by fitting the iat in the snorkel head? Any thoughts on this? I would think that an open sensor like this would fix that problem. That way the sensor isn't in contact with the housing and should not cool down when the housing is under water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 This is the style of jt connectors I need, I don't have enough room to fit the standard type, That's the sort of connectors that'll be in the post to you very shortly Also would I be better using the same sensor for both the ect and the iat? Means it's easier to carry a spare . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Dont IAT's typically have a very different design (like the one pictured above) to a coolant sensor? Much less thermal inertia for the airflow to overcome, and its somewhat "insulated" from the manifold, so the roasting hot casting doesnt effect the readings. Using a Coolant sensor to measure airflow surely means your just measuring the temperature of the inlet manifold, and thus you get the problems with wading as mentioned above. On the Idle control, i dont know much about the workings on megasquirt, but Bosch Motronic uses a "Torque Reserve" model for its idle control. Essentially it retards the timing at idle from its optimal point, and then uses the timing adjustment to keep the idle stable. It can advance the timing instantly (well, on the next combustion cycle), vs having to wait for the idle control valve or throttle plate to physically move and increase airflow to "catch" a load change. Hopefully megasquirt can do something similar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Yup, TBH, I ran for a long while with just the tiny bead thermistor dangling under the windscreen scuttle, gave proper air temp, and didn't get wet there! Don't think MS can handle adjusting the timing in the way above, at least not on MS1v3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I run a bead thermistor as IAT too. Running a CTS in the intake tract somewhere would potentially slow down the response time as the air has to heat or cool the whole sensor body, obviously if it's bolted into a hot assembly it will be subject to heat-soak so you have to think about it a little. MS can't directly do that specific type of idle control* but you can adjust the map to provide some effect like that around the idle zone, you may be able to cheat a bit extra using other adjustments in the MS. Edit: Off the top of my head, you could maybe achieve this by doing the following: - Populate parts of the VR sensor conditioning circuit to add the LM2904 op-amp - Connect this to the PWM idle output such that the op-amp provides an on/off signal when the idle valve (demand voltage) goes over, say, 50% - Connect that signal to the knock sensor input on the ECU - Configure the knock settings to advance rather than retard the ignition Or you could invert the sense of that, so the ECU retards the ignition to lower the idle. Or you could connect it to the NOS input and do a similar trick. Or connect it to the table-switching input and run a fuel AND ignition table with a more aggressive idle zone... * = Unless you write it yourself, which is part of the point of MS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 * = Unless you write it yourself, which is part of the point of MS... Speaking of that, is there any good info on modifying the firmware? I've looked into it before, but haven't found much apart from the one asm file which was slightly documented. Will probably need to do some mods for special outputs when we start putting it in a P38. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Speaking of that, is there any good info on modifying the firmware? I've looked into it before, but haven't found much apart from the one asm file which was slightly documented.Will probably need to do some mods for special outputs when we start putting it in a P38. TheRecklessEngineer has some experience of this, I've never tried although I can furnish you with a suitable demo copy of CodeWarrior if you need. What mods do you need to make for the P38? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 TheRecklessEngineer has some experience of this, I've never tried although I can furnish you with a suitable demo copy of CodeWarrior if you need. What mods do you need to make for the P38? I've poked around in the code, but nothing significant. The .zip file available here: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/Downloads/029y4a.zip (note: this is the 29y4a i.e. the most recent firmware version) contains a folder called src. Inside you'll find the source code and a 'compile.bat' file. Poke around in the source using whatever editor you like (I used a text editor), run compile.bat and it will compile to msns-extra.h which can then be uploaded to your ECU. Coding in ASM isn't particularly difficult, although I find it tedious. That said, I find all coding tedious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 Bead thermistor sounds good, fitted in or near the snorkel top Any recomendations for what thermistor to get? Also where is the best place to get some nice ht leads made up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 TheRecklessEngineer has some experience of this, I've never tried although I can furnish you with a suitable demo copy of CodeWarrior if you need. What mods do you need to make for the P38? Since the objective is to fully replace the GEMS ECU, it'll have to supply a few outputs in a certain format (RPM signal for example). Immobilisation should also be possible to get around, apparently you can program the BeCM to accept FFFF as a de-immobilisation response. Things like that. I've poked around in the code, but nothing significant.The .zip file available here: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/Downloads/029y4a.zip (note: this is the 29y4a i.e. the most recent firmware version) contains a folder called src. Inside you'll find the source code and a 'compile.bat' file. Poke around in the source using whatever editor you like (I used a text editor), run compile.bat and it will compile to msns-extra.h which can then be uploaded to your ECU. Coding in ASM isn't particularly difficult, although I find it tedious. That said, I find all coding tedious. That'll be the one I was looking at then, I thought there maybe was some more documentation or something. I've done ASM before, I found it quite fun, but maybe indeed a bit tedious. Anyway, sorry for the hijack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Bead thermistor sounds good, fitted in or near the snorkel topAny recomendations for what thermistor to get? Also where is the best place to get some nice ht leads made up? You can make up your own leads quite easily: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=73570 Fastlane auto will make leads to your spec, much, much cheaper than magnecor, who would also do it for you: http://www.fastlaneauto.co.uk/ I expect Fridge has a thermistor or two kicking around ... if not I can check when back in the garage, as I think I have one left over, they are pence in cost though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Nige can supply bead-type thermistors like this I believe:He can also supply HT cable & ends & a vice crimping tool. Or Fastlane are excellent and will make to measure.He Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Large step by step lead building section in my ms build thread, all stuff from nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 Finally got a bit more done, I have stripped it down to replace all the gaskets and the timing chains, and to give it a good check over, the bores are as new as is nearly everything else, which was nice, as the gaskets and chains ran into 4 figures from mercedes! Having the engine stripped and sat on its back has given me a great opportunity to get the trigger wheel and vr sensor sorted, there was already a casting on the front cover that lent itself to mounting the vr sensor to make use of this i started with a universal 6.5 wheel, bored the center out to fit on a register I'd turned on the front pulley. I had to take 12mm out of the back of the mass damper to clear the vr sensor. Once I was happy i'd got the missing tooth in the right place I stitched the trigger wheel to the pulley I know the sensor isn't close enough to the trigger wheel, I will adjust it closer when I get a new genuine sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Finally got a bit more done, I have stripped it down to replace all the gaskets and the timing chains, and to give it a good check over, the bores are as new as is nearly everything else, which was nice, as the gaskets and chains ran into 4 figures from mercedes! ..... Err wow ..... how come so expensive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 To be honest, I don't think that gap looks too bad, 1.5mm is recommended I think, though I have a small groove in mine where I managed to knock it in a bit far once Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I have loads of timing plugs here if you need any extras. My air temp is in the cabin near the rear view mirror as I had problems with cold water. Ok not ideal but it's not like I have the heater or a/c on and I seem to get away with it. I also got away with an accidental 24v jump start... I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 Err wow ..... how come so expensive?Mercedes genuine parts aren't cheap, Head gaskets were over £100 each, and I've chosen to replace everything on the chain, my Total cost on the engine should still be less than Nige's last eales Bill! And our power outputs should be very similar.To be honest, I don't think that gap looks too bad, 1.5mm is recommended I think, though I have a small groove in mine where I managed to knock it in a bit far once The gap is just over 2mm, the vr sensor I have is the type with the small hole in the end to the sensor, I could do with the part number for the one without the hole.I have loads of timing plugs here if you need any extras.My air temp is in the cabin near the rear view mirror as I had problems with cold water. Ok not ideal but it's not like I have the heater or a/c on and I seem to get away with it. I also got away with an accidental 24v jump start... I think Thanks for the offer Al, fridgefreezer has hooked me up.Al, when you were having wading issues were you using a bulb type thermister in the manifold? I am still thinking about using a bulb type in my snorkel top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 The gap is just over 2mm, the vr sensor I have is the type with the small hole in the end to the sensor, I could do with the part number for the one without the hole. HFH has these from stock, I don't have one to hand (or even here) to check the number, it's on this page: http://www.megasquirt-v8.co.uk/generic_parts.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 Thanks, but i'd rather eat my own elbows than use a fuelparts sensor, we have long since stopped using them at work due to their appalling quality, OEM or genuine every time for us. Fuel parts has recently become part of smpe alongside intermotor, but I still don't see that their quality will have improved much as they supply to a price not to a quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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