ayresy Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Hi guys I'm building a trailer/challenge truck and have thought been thwarted with engine troubles Anyway to cut the story short I'm thinking of dropping a v8 in instead of the current 300tdi ( 3rd engine of the build ) and want your opinions on gearbox Requirements Manual As little length as possible for weight distribution Strong Ease of conversion would be nice but not essential a lot of work has gone in already and it's almost finished but the engine is letting me down It's currently fitted with a lt77 and like where it sits in the bay and so something similar weight distribution wise would be good Cheers guys The build http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f12/trailer-challenge-truck-build-207130.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Lt85 strongest lr 5 speed box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayresy Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 Lt85 strongest lr 5 speed box How long is it compared to a lt77 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoDino Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I thought the LT95 was strongest...yet the LT85 is the strongest for the LT230 transfer case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Why manual ? Drive an auto before you dismiss the idea. A lot of trialers and challenge trucks use them. Don't know your wheelbase but mine is auto in an 88 with engine back about 6". G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I *think* this is his motor going by his username. 90 chassis i believe. You should definitely make the move from landyzone to LR4x4. Absolute load of numptys over there. I've got a good condition zf4hp22 with BW transfer box sat with torque converter and shifter if your tempted? £150 I live near chesterfield, my grandparents live in Shirley. So Im not far away! (Im also ex harper, however we're new holland drivers im afraid) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Why manual ? Drive an auto before you dismiss the idea. A lot of trialers and challenge trucks use them. Don't know your wheelbase but mine is auto in an 88 with engine back about 6".G Reliability would be my main concern. I understand the advantage of an auto giving more control, but if you go one step lower on the diff ratios, in combination with a diesel (tdi, or similar). The control will be fantastic. A v8 is completely different, and probably warrants an auto, but in terms of reliability, diesel with a manual wins hands down. Its not just the gearbox, but if your starter is down, you cant bump start an auto, so thats the end. then you have going downhill with an auto, which can be pretty scary.In my humble experience obviously. You should definitely make the move from landyzone to LR4x4. Absolute load of numptys over there. Thanks for the vote of confidence. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Come downhill in 1 st gear and you have engine braking. You can bump start an auto if you tow it fast enough, not fun though. Or just carry a spare starter - we do. I don't think they're any less reliable than a manual sorry G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttleyd Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 The guy who bought my spare auto was a trialled and said he was always after autos with viscous be boxes because they gave a much better turning cycle. Is that true? More slip in the coupling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Yes, better turning circle with the viscous chain TB. Would it work for challenge? Don't know, depends how you drive it I guess? LT95 is the strongest forward, but not so good backward, so I'd avoid it, and short bell housing versions are rare. I'm voting for auto as well on the V8. You can't change gear fast enough, where as the auto can drop a cog part way up a hill. Plus you buy the whole set in one ex-disco V8 lump. But I might not change, given that most S/H V8's seem to be mullered? So you replace a bad 300 tdi with a bad V8? Except the V8 has two heads, 16 valves, 8 pistons, bad oil pump and likes cam shafts. I really like my 3.5rv8, but it was nearly as bad as the one we took out and I spent a big wodge on trying to fix its natural ill's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 If your on your 3rd engine already might I suggest just finishing and using it? I know I sound about a hundred and fifty but unless you have indistruco axles an lt77 will last enough time to decide whether you want a diesel or petrol, manual or automatic skimmed milk or full fat...... If you've been to harper and have got to the stage your at then swapping an engine and box after a few comps is hardly a major issue... Will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayresy Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 Cheers for all the replies guys The V8 I'm dropping in is a 3.9 out of my range rover. I know this engine is good as I've driven it for months on the road and it's been faultless so I'm happy with it. It will get megasquirted soon ish but going to get it running first. My plan ATM is to keep the LT77 which I know is a good box and has never let me down. Doesn't grind or crunch nice and smooth. I prefer manual I just like having the control and the engine braking. I have a HP22-4 sat in my garage but I would prefer to keep the engine as far back as possible and keep nice long props which is my theory for the LT77 as its a very short box. I don't know what my luck is with engines but the first one wore out the bores, second and third had cracked heads (they never went in) and now the 300 that I put in is running like a sack of spanners and has low pressure and so needs a rebuild and I'd like more power ! I'm sure upgraded axles will follow at some point but I'm not going to change until I need it Cheers guys ill definately keep you updated The engine is now out of the RR and the spaw commences Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayresy Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 Oohh and I've blown up an auto so not convinced by there reputation and I've not been to harper. Just to clear things up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayresy Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 Hmmm after some measuring the auto box is 7 inches longer with the viscous transfer box than my current setup. Currently there is a 7 inch gap between the rear of the v8 and the front of the gearbox when the engine is place above the original mounts. And so by fitting the v8 I can use original mounts and don't have to make any adapter plates. I would have to lengthen the rear prop by 3 inches to account for the shorter length in the viscous than the lt230 which isn't a problem Now do I want an auto and have to Q plate it or do I stay manual and have to cut the bulkhead and make an adapter plate hmmmm ... The other problem would be the engine is 7 inches away from the bulkhead and so that doesn't help weight distribution and the auto is heavier than the manual making everything heavier and my rear rad pipes won't work with a viscous transfer box as its too close for where they currently are so they'd have to be remade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I hear the pain If its any use to you, mine is a RRC (series one landrover LRC hybrid) on standard engine mounts with 14" out of the chassis. Rear prop is standard 88" rear prop. Front is the original. The rear rad wasn't a choice, it was a necessity, as the water pump nut is an inch behind a full drum of rope on the milemarker. There is no room at the front at all, but I can get the plugs out without faffing about Weight distribution is a near pointless argument for me. A light engine on a heavy central gearbox made it a very well balenced trialer. A delight to drive, which I brutalised with stronger front end, front-pulley PTO hyd-pump and milemarker hydraulic. I know a lot of folk find auto's best for everything, but I find it tricky for trialing. But for challenge its spot on for winch and drive, without digging yourself in as you progress. You will need a good auto oil cooler though, and the maybe the kick down gear? My personal thing, if I had a good V8 would be auto, but I've never had it on the road, so Q plate stuff didn't come into my argument. Mine was due to the TL95 jumping out of reverse and making Broseley winch challenge excessively exciting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Q-plate, why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayresy Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 Q-plate, why? Different engine, gearbox, axles and suspension from standard. So not enough points to stay on original plate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Oh OK :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayresy Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 I hear the pain If its any use to you, mine is a RRC (series one landrover LRC hybrid) on standard engine mounts with 14" out of the chassis. Rear prop is standard 88" rear prop. Front is the original. The rear rad wasn't a choice, it was a necessity, as the water pump nut is an inch behind a full drum of rope on the milemarker. There is no room at the front at all, but I can get the plugs out without faffing about Weight distribution is a near pointless argument for me. A light engine on a heavy central gearbox made it a very well balenced trialer. A delight to drive, which I brutalised with stronger front end, front-pulley PTO hyd-pump and milemarker hydraulic. I know a lot of folk find auto's best for everything, but I find it tricky for trialing. But for challenge its spot on for winch and drive, without digging yourself in as you progress. You will need a good auto oil cooler though, and the maybe the kick down gear? My personal thing, if I had a good V8 would be auto, but I've never had it on the road, so Q plate stuff didn't come into my argument. Mine was due to the TL95 jumping out of reverse and making Broseley winch challenge excessively exciting If I use the auto the rear prop will be longer using standard mounts. I can fab that pretty easily though so not too worried The v8 with the auto on the road was quite nice really but it means having a further forward engine which is my only real problem plus I have little experience offroad in an auto but loads in a manual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 It took me a while to re-teach my brain. Before the change I knew that if the engine was running and the clutch was 'out' the wheels were turning down slopes. Now I have to look outside to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Come downhill in 1 st gear and you have engine braking. You can bump start an auto if you tow it fast enough, not fun though. Or just carry a spare starter - we do. I don't think they're any less reliable than a manual sorry G A zf won't tow start however fast you go, this is because it only has an oil pump at the front of the box. Torque flight 727's can be tow started as they have a tail shaft oil pump, as do the us powerglide 2 speeds and also some merc gearboxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Oohh and I've blown up an auto so not convinced by there reputation My point. Come downhill in 1 st gear and you have engine braking.You can bump start an auto if you tow it fast enough, not fun though. Or just carry a spare starter - we do. I don't think they're any less reliable than a manual sorry G no need to apologize. Main reason for me is that most of the retirements in Croatia trophy for example are because of auto. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Dan, we've tow started a trialer before. Sorry not sure on the ins and outs of how the oil pump runs. Edit - unless as you say he had a tf ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushpig110 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 All down to personal taste and your driving style, I've tried manual and auto and the only box I haven't broken so far is an LT95 ....... slow and agricultural on gear change but very strong. Sheared the mainshaft out the back of an LT85 once didn't think that was possible but it happened in the middle of a punch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 All down to personal taste and your driving style, I've tried manual and auto and the only box I haven't broken so far is an LT95 ....... slow and agricultural on gear change but very strong.Sheared the mainshaft out the back of an LT85 once didn't think that was possible but it happened in the middle of a punch Good effort! Goes to show that you can indeed break anything. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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