dark-night Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 well the p38 has gone down the pan, this weekend or before im buying a disco... no not a set of flashing lights the car! this will be a tow vehicle and off-roader as well as a daily driver. my choices are many but i have whittled it down to a few...i think, a v8, with lpg- cheaper to run loads of power to pull and off road and its a manual some 2.5td ones, diesel so not bad to run, good off-road, but enough power to pull a horse box? not sure, auto so still good off road out of those 2 choices what would you go for? bare in mind they will all be lifted around 4”, rock sliders,snorkel etc etc. my concerns for the lpg one is the tanks are torps under the car, has anyone ran off-road with these, i was thinking i would need to plate around them for safety. as for the auto manual debate for offroading, lets not go there as its a personal thing, i always used manual, but i have been using auto for a while now and in a lot of cases i find it superior, except the rocking back and forth can be done, but then the winch will sort that.. my main worry for the 2.5 is is it powerfull enough to tow a big double wheel horse box and 1-2 horses, i know they can i have seen them, but still not sure..so your thoughts? cars i have seen range from around 95-2000 reg thanks all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Personally, a V8 is much nicer to tow with, lots of reserves of power, even better with an auto IMHO. 300TDI, especially an auto will be rather pedestrian by comparison. I do worry about a 4" lift and towing, might well add far too much instability to the whole setup, I would stick with 2" as a max if you have to, or go with a body lift if you really want to get big tyres in there. Again, tyre choice will make a big difference to how it feels to tow... Simex make it horrible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landy-Novice Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 my main worry for the 2.5 is is it powerfull enough to tow a big double wheel horse box and 1-2 horses, i know they can i have seen them, but still not sure..so your thoughts?cars i have seen range from around 95-2000 reg our 300tdi 110 use to tow nearly everyday form 2tonnes of poo to a horse and pony. its 100% standard tune back then and towed fine on standard suspension with off road tires. which use to drone like an aeroplane i dont have much experience towing with TD5, but a TD5 110 is more that happy towing a large brain james tiltbed trailer with a 110 on the back at 70mph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark-night Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 the lift will be fine (im sure) with towing, 4” is about the limit though, using an adjustable tow hook n plate, over that yes, it gets a bit wibbly , i had to move one once with an 8” lift, that was fun!!! i would hazaed a guess so far in your 2 comments its going to be a 50/50 thing or personal pref again, but good to know the defender done it ok sorry should add that will be a 2” suspension lift and a 2” body lift 4 in all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Petrol (whether LPGized or not) engines are not my favourite when towing - the torque curve always seems wrong and you're having to change down/kickdown all too often. My TD5 Defender is a great towcar - would be even better if it was an auto as then you wouldn't lose turbo-boost for a bit when changing gear. As others have observed though, towing *and* a lift of any kind looks like a path to some serious tail-wagging-the-dog instability issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 a 200/300TDi will have plenty of power for towing, not an auto though! TDi autos are the worst form of torture ever invented, the constant "moo"ing and whenever you want that low down power the gearbox decides to change down and use the high revs. which doesent work on a diesel!!! the boxes are set up for v8's really and as a result are mismatched. a manual however, personally is fine. you will be able to overtake whilst towing, sit at 70 whilst towing and return average to good MPG whilst doing so IMO. a TD5 is also good for towing with plenty of power especially if chipped. however when driving one i do miss the pre boost torque that a 200/300 has. a TD5 will struggle and or stall where a TDi would pull up and away. ive never towed with a v8 but theyre pretty thirsty at the best of times! re lift kits, personally i dont see the need for a lift unless to fit bigger tyres, but i dont see whats wrong with a good set of 265/75R16's which will fit a disco with no lift although you may need to roll the arches slightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 boxes are set up for v8's really and as a result are mismatched. There are two ( or more) vairants of the HP22 box, one for diesel, one for V8, with different changes, and different torque converters with different parameters, of course not if you fit a V8 box to a diesel, but they should be well matched to the engine. If you found it was changing down too much, it may be the kick down cable was too tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Having done quite a lot of towing over the years, in order of preference would be: Td5 Auto Td5 Manual 300 Tdi Auto V8 Auto 200 Tdi Manual V8 Manual 300 Tdi Manual The torque converter in an auto converts RPM into Torque (hence the name) so an auto will transform an engine with limited torque while towing or off roading. If you are going to be towing a lot, I would seriously consider a Td5 - it is by far the best towing experience I've had in a Land Rover. My current 110 is a Td5 Manual - and it's fantastic! (But auto would be better). I found 300 Tdi Manuals lacked low end torque and were a problem pulling out at junctions. Likewise with a V8. 200 Tdi's have loads of low end torque, but lack the power to maintain a high speed up hills. The Td5 also returns the best mpg of everything so far while towing, if not when unladen. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 p.s. i have not driven/been in a better towing car than a Discovery 4 TDV6 ever! theyre incredible, super super stable and rediculously torquey. if i could have a TDV6 in my series tomorrow i would! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 There are two ( or more) vairants of the HP22 box, one for diesel, one for V8, with different changes, and different torque converters with different parameters, of course not if you fit a V8 box to a diesel, but they should be well matched to the engine.If you found it was changing down too much, it may be the kick down cable was too tight. changing down too much even when not activated by the kick down cable, i felt the torque just was not available. which IMO is a bit rediculous when travelling down to dover from derbyshire with a 14ft ifor, grey fergie and ~ 700 litres of fuel on board along with camping stuff and spares. it was a constant fight just to keep lorries from overtaking on uphill stretches, which i hate as it clogs up the whole motorway when they do. and i know why they do it. they are pressed for time and hours they aint gonna make money slowing down for vehicles. but if i could have avoided that, it would have been much better for all. on comparison. my series 3, towing said grey fergie, standing start up a 1 in 3 hill on same trailer actually outruns the unladen 300 auto disco. it was a standard fitment M registered drivetrain. it may not have been the best example in the world but it being so so sluggish has put me off for life! p.s. it was played with and fully serviced before hand too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco DJ Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I tow regularly with my D2 TD5 (2002). Standard height, Air suspension, michelin latitude cross tyres (last for ages!) Never put a foot wrong, but I don't try to race round in it! Plenty of power with big Ifor and 2 x 600kg horses. Also same trailer fits 58 bales of hay and I collect from a site with very steep hill to climb! No probs with manual, never tried an auto. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 My codriver James tows with a disco 2 td5. It really lacks starting off power, any big hills it "battles" on. We've round the defender to be better in this application, possibly due to the difference in transfer box ratio. I use a yank ford superduty 3.5 tonne, 158" wheelbase with a 6.0 in.... Not comparable to any LR vehicle, sorry. A massive help is the transmission brake (like exhaust brake). Gordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Smith Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Towing heavy trailers with my 200Tdi is a doddle, no it isn't that fast up hills, but after trying to reverse the trailer up my drive with a V8, well never again. I'm used to being able to do that at tickover which the V8 wouldn't even think about doing. Speed shouldn't be an issue with horses on board, so I would go Tdi personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco_al Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Personal choice would either be a 300 manual with the pump tweaked to get rid of the initial flat spot, or a remapped td5. At least with a manual you can hold a gear as long as you need without the worry of the box changing up or down at the wrong time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lincsoldbird Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 +1 Tdi as well with a bit of tuning. Simple and cheap on the none electronic ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark-night Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 You know I should have had a pole,lol. Well it seems to be out of a td5 or a 200/300 TDI, I think the auto is preferable to towing, is just easier and smoother for the horses,and as simon said, its not about speed when u pull a horse box, I drive very steady with them. Thanks for the input guys, now I'll go see what I can find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark-night Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 Mind you, its surprising the amount of difference in opinion on the same car, like pulls well, and no, never use again, maybe shows what a good service will do and also maybe any one will be fine? Just a passing thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I think a lot of it is just down to how different people drive and what the traffic is like where they live. I live on a town surrounded by open countryside - with lots of country lanes and poor visibility at junctions. I feel I need good acceleration to be able to pull out safely with a trailer - but obviously this doesn't sit well with Horses in a trailer. I guess they pick a different route! On a couple of hills (Birdlip Hill and Bury hill in particular) I often had to put my 200 Tdi in to low range to keep the engine in the turbo rev range with heavy trailers. My Td5 on the other hand, maybe has to drop in to 4th High and can keep a steady speed (40 ish) up both. What one person feels 'pulls fine' may not feel fine to another. Best bet is to try it! Most dealers will let you hitch your trailer to see how it pulls. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 What one person feels 'pulls fine' may not feel fine to another. This is a big thing. If you've only ever used a certain vehicle, then i think it's only natural to say "it pulls like a dream", it's once you start using others that you realise how they all compare. I towed for a good while with my 4.6 p38, that was nice, but not as much power as a newer tdv6 disco etc. Having used a 2.5 shogun / pajero, they're also nice but lack the power like the similar 2.8td has - again they're also nice. Another really good contender are the landcruisers, they have a lot of grunt ! G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark-night Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 I use a Isuzu 3.1 TD at the moment and these really will pull a house down, with a trailer on the flat they are fine but uphill can be a struggle, well down to 40, which considering the weight isn't bad I suppose. But its still slow on the motorway unladen. Im torn between a normal road version and trying to get one to go off road with as well, kids won't forgive me if we can't do a bit of that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Do you not want to tow with the trooper then? A mate had one and felt it his best tow car ever... If non-electronic you can turn the fuel up easily, electronic is a little more work, but still possible. DD probably knows an awful lot more about these than I though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark-night Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 It may be that yes we keep the trooper and get a disco as a second car, but at first was trying to do with one car,trouble with the trooper is its motorway speed is not much more than towing! From Devon to Scotland at 65 is a darn long way lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Odd, I used to cruise at 80 (on French motorways of course) when I borrowed the Trooper, top speed quoted at 94mph, maybe there is something wrong with it? http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/isuzu/trooper/station-wagon-1992/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark-night Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 No she's spot on but an older girl, a 92, oh she will do quicker but then u get 20mpg! Or less, where at 55_60 she does 30mpg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I think a lot of it is just down to how different people drive and what the traffic is like where they live. I live on a town surrounded by open countryside - with lots of country lanes and poor visibility at junctions. I feel I need good acceleration to be able to pull out safely with a trailer - but obviously this doesn't sit well with Horses in a trailer. I guess they pick a different route!On a couple of hills (Birdlip Hill and Bury hill in particular) I often had to put my 200 Tdi in to low range to keep the engine in the turbo rev range with heavy trailers. My Td5 on the other hand, maybe has to drop in to 4th High and can keep a steady speed (40 ish) up both. What one person feels 'pulls fine' may not feel fine to another. Best bet is to try it! Most dealers will let you hitch your trailer to see how it pulls. Si where i live, it is also safe to have power, lots of little lanes, bad junctions and steep hills! i always feel comfortable pulling away in Brian, it makes me think there must have been a problem with your TDi, as you had to go into low to keep moving up a hill in boost? to put this in perspective, there are 2 steepish hills i regularly tow up near me, one being colycroft, jsut outside of ashbourne, towards the A50, i have no problem keeping a decent speed up there, and even found myself overtaking an Izusu rodeo towing an empty trailer the other week whilst i was towing 50 bales of hay in a cattle trailer, just so i didnt have to change out of top! the second hill is much steeper and longer, Slack hill between matlock and chesterfield. this one i usually end up at around 40mph at the top, purely as my turbo is wound out too much and i have to back off a fair way in order to stop the engine overboosting (going off the guage at 20+psi) i do really need to take that down a smidgen! on my current tyres (235/85) i find i have more towing power at 70 than i do at 60 because of the gearing, the older ones were ideal for towing (236/70) but i beeched a lot off road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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