Jocklandjohn Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I am currently in the planning stage of adapting my 110 roof to be able to lift. Like this but on a serious budget. I've managed to source various profiled aluminium sections from stock that get around having to do too much bending to obtain the desired shapes, which will keep labour to a minimum, requiring only some accurate cutting and a reasonable amount of welding. However it appears that some of the sections and panels can be bonded - eg the roof surface itself is simply a large flat sheet, and the underlying (welded) frame provides a series of perfectly flat mating faces to join to, and it strikes me that rather than try to weld this with a long seam weld all round, it could be bonded instead using either liquid adhesive for aluminium or perhaps the specialist adhesive tape. Has anyone used these specific bonding materials and can offer advice, guidance and anything I should definitely do or avoid? PS when the ploy is under way, which will be soon as I hope to have this done before the end of autumn, I'll start a build thread and provide all the plans and dimensions, and material stock numbers/sizes so you can follow what I'm up to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Well, the first aero application of aluminium bonding was on the Nimrod back in the 60's, worked well for them... I'd get in touch with Loctite, see what they recommend, they are pretty much the leaders in bonding technology in my mind. I've always been fascinated with composites and alternative fastening techniques, I think its definitely the way to go. Mav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocklandjohn Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 Thanks Mav. I've had a quick squint at this and it looks like the way to go. But the best thing I've seen is a DVD my 4 year old got from granpa - The History of Aston Martin and it shows the later models alloy chassis sections being glue-bonded in the factory. If it's good enough for an Aston chassis it'll be good enough for a Landy roof! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Interesting, I'll have to look a little more into this now... The VHB tape might do you. I'd be careful of using 2 part epoxy.. The aluminium bonding I have done using some quick set Araldite wasn't so successful, as I found the Araldite cracked when over flexed... but that could have been down to poor surface prep, I think its important to keep in mind the material flexibility and to find an adhesive to work with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 on my 110's roof [smooth] outer it's joined with lots of spotwelds, not bonded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I'm using Sudal Carbond but I'm also riviting it.... I've some 3M VHB tape here that I got as a sample. Very, very good stuff but very,very,very expensive. Plus I didn't want an extra 3mm in width so to speak. I've had plenty of success using Araldite. The normal stuff not the quick set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Adhesives/Tapes/Applications/~/All-3M-Products/Industry-and-Professionals/TEST/IATD-Applications?Ntt=Aluminium+bonding&rt=s&x=0&y=0 Some interesting stuff on the 3M website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I'm using Sudal Carbond but I'm also riviting it....I've some 3M VHB tape here that I got as a sample. Very, very good stuff but very,very,very expensive. Plus I didn't want an extra 3mm in width so to speak. I've had plenty of success using Araldite. The normal stuff not the quick set. yup - like a lot of quick set adhesives you lose out on the flexibility from my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Haven't checked all the links here but have you considered the Sikaflex range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I've specified and used 3M RP16 tape on a vandal resistant product, we managed to get it to withstand IK10 drop testing. Depending on the thickness allowance RP45 is also superb. I've had these two bits of aluminum (basically a 2kg weight) stuck together for 3 months now with no creeping. You cannot pull them apart, you need to jimmy them to get them to split (we tried it before). It's an acrylic foam so it self heals over time if its damaged, its also really easy to use. I've stuck on a couple of aluminum panels to Daisy using off cuts and they work a treat. Cheers, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Oh, RP16 is 0.4mm thick and RP45 is 1.1mm thick & it's not that expensive now. 3M's patent has run out so there are lots of knock off acrylic adhesive tapes coming out. The RP range is a response to this market threat. Cheers, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I've specified and used 3M RP16 tape on a vandal resistant product, we managed to get it to withstand IK10 drop testing. Depending on the thickness allowance RP45 is also superb.I've had these two bits of aluminum (basically a 2kg weight) stuck together for 3 months now with no creeping. You cannot pull them apart, you need to jimmy them to get them to split (we tried it before). Capture.JPG It's an acrylic foam so it self heals over time if its damaged, its also really easy to use. I've stuck on a couple of aluminum panels to Daisy using off cuts and they work a treat. Cheers, Mike Some quite impressive facts there, I've just ordered some samples from these guys: http://www.duraco.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I've repaired, say it quietly, my bulkhead with 3M tape...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I've repaired, say it quietly, my bulkhead with 3M tape...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I've repaired, say it quietly, my bulkhead with 3M tape...... The 3M supplier I deal with said the reason they don't use VHB tape to hold on car body panels is because they can't get it off if they need to swap the panels. They have had to invent a heat activated type. You'll never get the "repair" off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 The 3M supplier I deal with said the reason they don't use VHB tape to hold on car body panels is because they can't get it off if they need to swap the panels.They have had to invent a heat activated type. You'll never get the "repair" off Yep Mike. That's one reason I didn't use £M on my trailer. I was told ONE and only one go. Then it won't come off. Aparently the 3M tape is use to hold the balconies in place on flats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunc Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 We bond ally (and plastics) at work with Plexus glue, same stuff used for gluing Elise chassis together. It's pretty much a heavy-duty araldite in simplistic terms. http://www.itwplexus.co.uk/index.php?/plexus/automotive/automotive/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Yep Mike. That's one reason I didn't use £M on my trailer. I was told ONE and only one go. Then it won't come off. Aparently the 3M tape is use to hold the balconies in place on flats. We've found cheese wire will open up the joint, then a good solvent takes it off. you have to be careful with tapes, you need to get the one where the adhesive is foamed, not where the adhesive is on a backer. Cheers, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocklandjohn Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 Thanks for all the great replies, some really really useful information here. What a resource you folks are! As my need is primarily to hold a flat panel roughly....well.....roof length x width down onto a rigid sub-frame made of 19mm box which provides flat mating faces, some of the suggestions above will be perfect. PS: When I said my budget was 'serious' I meant seriously modest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 We've found cheese wire will open up the joint, then a good solvent takes it off.you have to be careful with tapes, you need to get the one where the adhesive is foamed, not where the adhesive is on a backer. Cheers, Mike That's the way the toe rags are pinching number plates here and I guess everywhere else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I would use sikaflex or tiger seal, I've used tiger seal for windscreens, holding arch spats on, side windows, Chequerplate, gauge pods and fingers together with great success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Yep Mike. That's one reason I didn't use £M on my trailer. I was told ONE and only one go. Then it won't come off. Aparently the 3M tape is use to hold the balconies in place on flats. and the glass on buildings like the shard and interestingly aeroplane wings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash.Witty Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Loctite 5910 silicone is seriously strong stuff, it sticks anything to everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I would use sikaflex or tiger seal, I've used tiger seal for windscreens, holding arch spats on, side windows, Chequerplate, gauge pods and fingers together with great success. Problem I found with tiger and other sealant adhesives is the drying time can be a pain, and you have to come up with a support structure while the thing dries out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocklandjohn Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 As my roof panel will be dropped on vertically, 'creep' is not a problem. What is of more concern is a degree of adjustment whilst it is still 'wet' so I can ensure a bit of adjustment to keep the alignment correct before it sets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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