Landrover Nissan Hybrid Trialer/Racer

[n.r.g97]

I think that title sums it up...

My landy has been around about 3 years in its currentish form, by that i guess i mean a coiler. First off it was a leafer used once a year at riphay scuffle... oh dear! But then I started to do punch hunts, it soon turned out the chassis was worse than first thought, anyway we wind up 3 years later, its coil sprung with +5 shocks flexy springs, nissan patrol y61 axles, locker in the back LSD in the front.

Now, I feel it is time to progress to more events, well actually i fancy a shot at racing and maybe a few other types of competition, wink wink. The mods planned for the next year; well actually by next June, are as follows:

• Tune the 2.25 petrol
• rebuild the gearbox
• New seats
• Finish off the gas tank cover
• Work to the cage
• PTO winch (to fit in with sticking with a 2.25)

A thread on the tuning can be found in the series section. We have started on the rollcage, however it may need more work. Also will be new tyres and possibly shocks, of either king or fox variety. I hope you enjoy.

Here is how it looks currently.

Here is the first of the cage adaptations

[jai_landrover]

My old man ran his 109 with +40 thou pistons and he had the head skimmed something silly like 140thou rings a bell so many mm in reality which the eng firm refused to do at first saying it was a mistake. he had to shorten the pushrods but it was the fastest series I've ever been in with overdrive would cruise happily at 70mph no problems he got the info from an article donkeys years ago about a race tuned lightweight comp safari motor in the all wheel driver magazine I think. Look into it but he used to get about 22 23mpg I think on a run to Wales which for a well laiden 109 wasn't bad.

[Team Idris]

"race tuned lightweight comp safari motor" sounds like dad's. He really pushed his luck with it, with ported head, wild cam, lightened flywheel and new valve springs. But he over did the top end and killed the low end torque. However, some of the parts did well in less mad builds

I think it replaced the small block chevy project, which was banned before it was finished and introduced the ALRC 'rover engines only' policy. It could lift the front wheels a couple of inches on our steep tarmac driveway. Even the slightest 'wheely' in a landy is cool!

[n.r.g97]

That sounds promising! Ill have a look through dads old all wheel driver mags, it was dads idea in fairness i was all for the 2.3 volvo lump i have, but i like the 2.25 so it makes sense. Unfortunatly i wont be going with an overdrive, but with taller tyres and the right gearing it will hopefully be pretty useful.

Steve, we are not going crazy with the cam for that reason, also leaving the flywheel alone; for racing its better but as i still want to trial it then i need the torque really, plus some events need speed and torque.

[n.r.g97]

Back from the awdc national finals and well it didnt go as planned exactly, at buildwas the gates wer very tight, very! With a few sections only 80" and fiddle braked cars getting past the 8's i cant say it was the most enjoyable event having driven 4 hours to get there- only to pop off a tyre on the first day, a bad nights sleep meant i was fairly irritable in the morning! But winge over, i decided to put my hubs into auto lock because hopefully id get slightly better cornering, it worked well, thankfully as some of the sections were even tighter today, however the axles and the suspension are working faultlessly so now its time to look at the cornering, with an LSD in the front it will allways try to push on, and at 87" its not perfect for trialing, so im considering fitting fiddle brakes, which will put me in class A/ mod 1... all that worries me is that ill be at a dissadvantage having a full body compared to the other mods... definatly need to have a long think about it.

[discomark10]

Might be worth looking at rear steer, would half the effective turning circle! Not sure how that would effect the rules for your class for your club mind you.

[n.r.g97]

I would consider it, however it would put me in the same class as fiddles and with nissan axles would cost a lot more, while i may do it one day i cant see it happening soon as id lose my locker and would hold it back at speed events.

[n.r.g97]

Hi,

I havent had much chance to do any work on the landy lately, but we will, if all goes to plan, be fitting the new engine and box this friday/saturday, which will be good.

Also i've been looking at the various suspension threads posted on here, and in future would like to one link the front and 4 link the rear, however, at the moment i am not going to be doing this and i am quite happy with the rear ends travel, with lockers its not so nessacary (sp) however i would still like to improve travel on the front if there is a way withought messing aroumd with the truck too much.

Anyway, I was looking at DeRanged's rear end and while im not doing anything half as cool, would it be worth cutting the rearmost mount for the radius arm off on both radius arms, so that the frontmost part of the radius arm is bolted to the axle in the normal way, but the rear bolts would be missing, then, using a nissan patrol drag link as a top link mounted above and behind the axle to create effectively a 3 link?

It may be really stupid but i cant see why it wouldnt work, that being said i havent done any calculations oreven any measurements so it might not work.

[o_teunico]

and in future would like to one link the front and 4 link the rear

Is not that 4 link what Nissan uses in the rear of Y60/61?

[Bowie69]

Seem to remember it is parallel 4-link with panhard...

[De Ranged]

Anyway, I was looking at DeRanged's rear end and while im not doing anything half as cool, would it be worth cutting the rearmost mount for the radius arm off on both radius arms, so that the frontmost part of the radius arm is bolted to the axle in the normal way, but the rear bolts would be missing, then, using a nissan patrol drag link as a top link mounted above and behind the axle to create effectively a 3 link?

It may be really stupid but i cant see why it wouldnt work, that being said i havent done any calculations oreven any measurements so it might not work.

I don't quite understand is this for the front axle or the rear ?

From a trials perspective there is one issue with this idea that concerns me... the rubber bushes on radius arms are designed to flex this will allow movement within the bush that will change your axle tracking this could make it difficult to trust where your wheels will track, you should be able to gain more articulation tho

There is a bit more to my ass end than links and funky springs... the links are setup in a particular way that as the suspension extends I loose anti squat the force that makes the rear of the truck lift or sag under acceleration, "normal" setups gain more anti squat as the suspension extends...My theory is that this will make the truck more stable in climbs, I can't say if it works the way I want it to or not yet as its spring here and still wet it seems to work well in the slippery going the test will come in the dry when I've got good traction

I haven't tried running the numbers with a 3 link calculator to see if I can create the same effect for the front axle... I could see the same gain in climbing stability.... at a guess to get the same effect you'll need the lower link to be around twice the length of the upper link, while having the lower axle link at the opposite side of axle necessary it seemed to speed up the loss of anti-squat so I'd suggest mounting the same

[n.r.g97]

Seem to remember it is parallel 4-link with panhard...

Yes, i think they do use that setup, but i used the landy setup out of ease really and just changed the ball joint on the a frame, while it works well enough at trialing, i wish i had done it right the first time around- oh well.

I don't quite understand is this for the front axle or the rear ?

From a trials perspective there is one issue with this idea that concerns me... the rubber bushes on radius arms are designed to flex this will allow movement within the bush that will change your axle tracking this could make it difficult to trust where your wheels will track, you should be able to gain more articulation tho

There is a bit more to my ass end than links and funky springs... the links are setup in a particular way that as the suspension extends I loose anti squat the force that makes the rear of the truck lift or sag under acceleration, "normal" setups gain more anti squat as the suspension extends...My theory is that this will make the truck more stable in climbs, I can't say if it works the way I want it to or not yet as its spring here and still wet it seems to work well in the slippery going the test will come in the dry when I've got good traction

I haven't tried running the numbers with a 3 link calculator to see if I can create the same effect for the front axle... I could see the same gain in climbing stability.... at a guess to get the same effect you'll need the lower link to be around twice the length of the upper link, while having the lower axle link at the opposite side of axle necessary it seemed to speed up the loss of anti-squat so I'd suggest mounting the same

Okay, i have read your thread and im very impressed by the way it should work and appears to, i understand the way its meant to work, but i dont plan to do anything half as good, just steal the way of mounting the lower link- with it wrapped around the axle. I also saw another post on here by an author i cant remember, who meantioned using the rear point of the radius arm as the lower link, but i dont think i could get enough separation for this to work. So as you say the steering will be less predictable as the axle articulates? I think that will hinder the landy more than improve it unfortunatly, as ut already has reasonable travel and the lsd and locker help when thats not enough, thanks for helping.

[n.r.g97]

And sorry, its for the front.

[De Ranged]

My issue with the tracking is the is something that would only be a minor issue, but when your driving between flags and its a case of penalty points for a wheel an inch out

In a standard setup you have two mounts each side to hold the axle that is alot of rubber to compress to move the axle, to move one side forward and one side back (change the alignment of your steering axle and where you are going) your cutting that amount of rubber in half I know its not much if you measure the compression available but you are doing the one thing that is most critical for steering... trials

You have seen my build right. that back axle I can push it 2" either way I'm 100kg's, I knew this would be there when I built it, there are tradeoff's for building out of the rubbish bin lol and it did "feel" it at times.... if the suspension proves its worth it I"ll throw in some ball joints when I put the new axles under there

[n.r.g97]

Thanks, I decided not to cut up the suspension, as it works well enough, for now anyway. Since I last posted, we have gained support from a couple of company's, the first being Profender; for the shock absorbers, I have got a set of 14" travel, 2.0 remote reservoir coil overs on their way; they should be on their way to me towards the end of January (currently waiting to get on the boat). Also, WSO4x4, for beadlocks, they are great quality and at a great price! not only have the blingy bits been ordered, but we have been working on the old girl, the centre cross member has been beefed up with 6mm plate, and raised in line with the chassis rails. There is a new gearbox and clutch in there, as the last one gave up in December. while we are still running the engine in, it is worlds apart from the old one, I cant wait to use it properly! the gearbox now sits about 1" further left, this means that the rear prop angle is greatly improved, and it is actually much more central! the winch is in, and just needs rope now, although it was a tight fit! hopefully it will work well.