Boydie Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 As part of the "blue printing" of my spare motor the rods, crank and camshaft were X-rayed at De Haviland Aero. A minute stress fracture was detected in the crank, possibly there since new as these standard cranks are a cast and pressed item rather than a machined unit from a billet of solid steel. As a result the crank was discarded and I'm seriously looking at converting up to a 2.8 litre with steel crank, new rods pistons block rebore etc. Has anyone else on the forum carried out this conversionand if so what problems (if any) did you experience and what should I look out for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 There's an excellent thread on here by Lara on his own 2.8 conversion , I'm sure someone will provide a link to it The crank and con-rods were designed by another member of this forum iirc edit : had a quick look and the thread was started 01/03/10 and is called 2.8 TD5 build, enjoy cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Lara's was a Td5... .Boydie is doing it to a 300tdi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landy-Novice Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 something like this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300Tdi-Engine-Upgrade-From-2-5-Litre-To-2-8-Litre-/170372094176?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item27aaf7d8e0 and the link to the 2.8 build if its any help. http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=53390 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Yep , but a bloody good write up and diesel tech nevertheless.. cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landy-Novice Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 indeed it is, just a shame he hasnt updated it. saying that, hes not been here in months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 Okay i'm sold, its either that or a new crank so the conversion is the most attractive option as its from a billet of steel rather than a cast and formed blank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Is this the TGV thing? Can you build it out of a regular 2.5 300 then? I assumed the engine was more different. Lad on Landyzone has done it and it is stonking, he estimates 6k for the conversion to a new 2.8 TGV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 The conversion I will be ordering will be from a UK company, Motoe and Diesel Engineering in East Anglia. The conversion includes a new crank shaft, rcon ods, pistons, piston rings, bearings, and infomation on block rebore details and is around AUD $3500.00 As I already have the new seals, gaskets etc. I guess the total cost would be in the vicinity of AUD $5000.00 but the block has been chemically cleaned, new camshaft bearings fitted so the main costs are covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 The TGV is a development of the 300tdi so I imagine you probably could Mr Noisy. Anyone know how the 200tdi compares? Would the 2.8 kit fit one with a bit of work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 The TGV is a development of the 300tdi so I imagine you probably could Mr Noisy. Anyone know how the 200tdi compares? Would the 2.8 kit fit one with a bit of work? The 200 tdi has different pistons, but maybe you could change the injectors to cope with that. I guess the big issues would be is the crank the same and is it possible to rebore the block the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I think the 300 has a 5 bearing crank or am I getting confused with the change from 19J to 200? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 The 200 is also a 5 bearing crank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris113 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Is this the TGV thing? Can you build it out of a regular 2.5 300 then? I assumed the engine was more different.Lad on Landyzone has done it and it is stonking, he estimates 6k for the conversion to a new 2.8 TGV Mr Noisy is there a build thread for it on LZ? I searched around but couldn't find anything On another note, M & D Engineering also sell the 2.8 VNT Turbo kit to go with the 2.8 crank/pistons set - in stage 1 or 2 flavour depending on your budget. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300-Tdi-VNT-TURBO-POWER-IMPROVEMENT-KIT-stage2-/170332647612?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item27a89df0bc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landy-Novice Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 for another few K's you may as well just buy the whole engine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 If you go on LZ in the disco section there is a build thread, in fact here's a link http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f8/auf_wiedersehen_pets-build-thread-206921.html This guy fitted/had fitted a new 2.8 TGV, could be a good read. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 The 300TDi has a 5 bearing crank. The kit on order has a new crankshaft, con rods, pistons, piston rings, crank and big end bearings and multi-plate head gasket. With the additional torque I'll be ordering their uprated auto flex plate c/w a new ring gear and a new ballanced harmonic balancer as the existing one on mine is scored and will cause the front oil seal to wear and leak. The block has, as you will be aware, been chemically cleaned the water-ways shot peaned to remove any detrius and casting points and has had new cam shaft bearing pressed in so once I get the kit in from the UK a total re-bore will be called for to match the new increased diameter pistons. I'll stick with the existing Garrett turbo as I'll be looking for additional torque, not more power and as the standard injectors and FIP are recommended I'll stick with reliability rather than looking for more outright power and the little Garrett is nothing if not reliable. I am still seriously looking at having the three triangulat water-ways between bores 1-2; 2-3 and 3-4 welded up. These water-ways while they have cut-outs in the head gasket dont pass through to any correcponding water-ways in the head and being so close to the bores are the weakest point and where the head gasket always seems to give way. I did ask the question "Why are they there" on this forum but never got any response!!! Currently I'm looking for a damaged block to TIG weld up as a trial as it will need a .001 -.003 skim after to "true" the block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I thought you did get an answer in that thread about the waterways ? Can't find the thread and can't quite remember though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 Nope, never had a single reply, I can only assume (and this can make an ass out of you and me) that the block was from a previous model engine - the 200TDI possibly where the water jacket extended up into the head from these three water-ways ?????? but they are no longer used on the 300TDi - as I said I've looked at three blown head gaskets and they all seem to eminate from the narrow space between the cylinder bore and these water-ways consequently I'm keen to experiment with TIG welding them up. An old mate of mine who is a gun welder had had a sucsessful trial run on an old Ford block and we milled it after and the fill-in weld wasnt visable, so good was his work, that only leaves the cut-outs in the gasket as a weak point but I should be able to dab a bit of gasket blue to fill in these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 This water way question is a question for James Martin on Landyzone, he knows all there is to know about LR engineering... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 LOL although I wouldnt consider a Japanese or American alternative to my Disco I find the term "LR Engineering" similar to the term "Military Inteligence" -- a misnominer if ever there was one. With my Disco I've found that the basic intent is/was good, perhaps economies and accountants got in the way of the ideal and sales managers and interior designers who attempted to include too much glitz, LR sem to have lost there way in recent years forgetting that one of the main attractions of the original LR was its pure simplicity and that it could be dismantled with a minimal amount of tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 LOL although I wouldnt consider a Japanese or American alternative to my Disco I find the term "LR Engineering" similar to the term "Military Inteligence" -- a misnominer if ever there was one.With my Disco I've found that the basic intent is/was good, perhaps economies and accountants got in the way of the ideal and sales managers and interior designers who attempted to include too much glitz, LR sem to have lost there way in recent years forgetting that one of the main attractions of the original LR was its pure simplicity and that it could be dismantled with a minimal amount of tools. Tend to agree there but looking at today's vehicles there is not a single new "SUV type" vehicle out there that doesn't have the same level of bling, but LR lost their way when they made the step away from commercial vehicles production and only kept the Defender under the guise of the "do all" vehicle, but that's for another thread I think. I am so much more interested to see some pictures of your build so far and dare I say I would be your biggest fan if I could see you post a jpeg of the crank X-ray!!! You still going to do the 2.8 conversion with crank and pistons etc? But what about the turbo? The TGV 2.8 runs a VNT turbo will you do the same or as you stated previously the Garrett is reliable if nothing else! Out of curiosity how much intensity does it require to X-ray steel? Only ask as I work for a vet and we do tons of X-rays of sport horses but could be fun to see if the machine would X-ray a weld or such like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 I'll try to photcopy the X-ray and post it, I wouldnt have clue as to the power required, however its a standard service procedure when military aircraft engine components are tested and my crank, rods and pistons somehow got included in a batch of Blackhawk engine parts that were being tested prior to re-assembly at the De Haviland Aircraft facility at Bankstown Airport as for the flaw it appears as a slight shaddow in the second main bearing web. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 As for the turbo, the supplier tells me that the standard turbo will more than manage with the additional 300cc ( 9% ) in standard form - I can believe this as it can boost up to over 20 psi up from the 14.7 psi standard pressure without loosing any reliability and the stanard Fuel Injection Pump (FIP) will supply the additional fuel as its used on 3.5 litre engines and that goes for the injectors as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 It's not that the turbo isn't up to it, it's that the VNT makes boost everywhere, all the time. Personally I think just buying a new TGV lump outright is pretty good value compared to reviving a weary 200TDi. Well, that or spend a hell of a lot less and just drop in an Isuzu 2.8 or 3.1 or 3.9, or a Nissan or Mazda lump, or an LS, or a V8... basically anything that makes the power out of the box rather than requiring expensive fettling. Then start saving up for drivetrain parts of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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