2.8 litre Conversion

[Nigelw]

If it weren't for PVG numbers

[Boydie]

Hummmm not too sure that I want permanent boost, it would seem to me that constant boost will equate to extra engine load and loss of fuel ecomony ---- or is my thinking wrong, I'm mindfull of, for examples, Coober Pedy to Ilulinka = 720 kilometers over sandy corrugated roads and the Canning Stock Route over 900 between fuel drops so for me the drive is for economy with reliability, I'm only going this 2.8 route as its the same cost as a new crank.

[Nigelw]

I am not really seeing it that way entirely as the boost may be constant but not so sure on the fueling side as I see it this way>

Standard waste gate actuated boost big hit to fuel when on boost at a given higher RPM.

Variable vane is giving boost constantly and therefore will be more efficient in terms of not needing the higher RPMs to create boost to maintain a given speed or momentum.

In my mind it should more fuel efficient and kinder to the drive train too???

Although happy to be corrected

[FridgeFreezer]

On local evidence the 2.8 TGV is not kind to drivetrains - nor are any other big diesels from what I've seen. Four huge thwacks of torque per cycle rattles down the drivetrain and seems to be much more destructive than eight smaller lumps adding up to the same amount. I know a few people who have or had big diesels in LR's and they seem to get through a lot of drivetrain compared to the rest of the club. Like I say, it's purely my impression from my circle of LR mates over the years.

VNT means you don't have to spin the turbo up / make more revs to produce power. Your drivetrain may not thank you for that though, as it means you can slug away at low RPM when you'd normally drop a gear and give it some revs.

[TheRecklessEngineer]

I doubt you will see much difference in economy between a VVT and a normal one - if anything it should be an improvement in favour of the VVT for the reasons that dieseldog suggested.

There won't be any extra load on the engine due to the VVT.

[Boydie]

okay so far so good discussion wise, now, when we go on one of our trips into the "bush" (in our case desert) the tracks we encounter are in some instances so wild, disused and corrugated and rutted that they are good for only 20 - 30 kilometers per hour - max !! so ---- for example our trip from Coober Pedy to Ilulinka in November of this year this section along the Anne Bidell track will take 4-5 days to cover the 720 k's.

Now my 300Tdi is connected to a Ashton ZF4HP22 / 24 gearbox with one of their "stage 2" torque converters - trust me strain that the additional 300 cc's might produce on the transmission is not a concern, the additional torque from the 2.8 will be taken up with a stronger flex plate, so back to the original point that I really disnt explain too well, at 25kph in high range my engine is running at under 1000 rpm so even with a variable turbo there would be little to no boost. In deep sand I switch to low range, the revs go up to 1800rpm but ths ground speed stays around 25kph.

[auf_wiedersehen_pet]

Lad on Landyzone has done it and it is stonking, he estimates 6k for the conversion to a new 2.8 TGV

That'll be me then.

Mine wasn't the conversion it was the full 2.8 TGV fitted.

If you go on LZ in the disco section there is a build thread, in fact here's a link

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f8/auf_wiedersehen_pets-build-thread-206921.html

This guy fitted/had fitted a new 2.8 TGV, could be a good read.

Cheers

Thanks for linking Sam.

On local evidence the 2.8 TGV is not kind to drivetrains - nor are any other big diesels from what I've seen. Four huge thwacks of torque per cycle rattles down the drivetrain and seems to be much more destructive than eight smaller lumps adding up to the same amount. I know a few people who have or had big diesels in LR's and they seem to get through a lot of drivetrain compared to the rest of the club. Like I say, it's purely my impression from my circle of LR mates over the years.

VNT means you don't have to spin the turbo up / make more revs to produce power. Your drivetrain may not thank you for that though, as it means you can slug away at low RPM when you'd normally drop a gear and give it some revs.

It is manuals which the TGV destroys. The only problem with my auto is the small torque converter loses some of the power/torque.

I doubt you will see much difference in economy between a VVT and a normal one - if anything it should be an improvement in favour of the VVT for the reasons that dieseldog suggested.

There won't be any extra load on the engine due to the VVT.

My fuel economy is carp either way. You don't fit a 2.8 TGV and a full width intercooler then drive it like a vicar!

okay so far so good discussion wise, now, when we go on one of our trips into the "bush" (in our case desert) the tracks we encounter are in some instances so wild, disused and corrugated and rutted that they are good for only 20 - 30 kilometers per hour - max !! so ---- for example our trip from Coober Pedy to Ilulinka in November of this year this section along the Anne Bidell track will take 4-5 days to cover the 720 k's.

Now my 300Tdi is connected to a Ashton ZF4HP22 / 24 gearbox with one of their "stage 2" torque converters - trust me strain that the additional 300 cc's might produce on the transmission is not a concern, the additional torque from the 2.8 will be taken up with a stronger flex plate, so back to the original point that I really disnt explain too well, at 25kph in high range my engine is running at under 1000 rpm so even with a variable turbo there would be little to no boost. In deep sand I switch to low range, the revs go up to 1800rpm but ths ground speed stays around 25kph.

Future plans are an Ashcroft upgrade with bigger torque converter. Pulls like a train everywhere. It's very difficult to know when the turbo kicks in as it just grunts from 800rpm upwards. Pulls much better than my old 3.5 and 3.9 RRCs. Catches out lots of knobs at traffic lights.

[auf_wiedersehen_pet]

Just realised that there is some sort of inbuilt filter which changes words like carp into something less rude such as "ploppy plop plops".

carp. carp. carp.

carp. carp. carp.

carp. carp. carp.

carp. carp. carp.

carp. carp. carp.

carp. carp. carp.

[Mr Noisy]

Hi rob... Typical

[Mr Noisy]

But yeah they only recently started using swear filter on LZ but even then is less encroaching than on here.

I have to swear accordingly on LZ but on here I just type what I ****ing want!

[Boydie]

noy quite the info I was hoping for but interesting all the same

[FridgeFreezer]

okay so far so good discussion wise, now, when we go on one of our trips into the "bush" (in our case desert) the tracks we encounter are in some instances so wild, disused and corrugated and rutted that they are good for only 20 - 30 kilometers per hour - max !! so ---- for example our trip from Coober Pedy to Ilulinka in November of this year this section along the Anne Bidell track will take 4-5 days to cover the 720 k's.

I thought faster was smoother on corrugations? It's how I've always driven them anyway.

Oh and I can confirm TSD's TGV makes ~20psi boost during parking manoeuvres!

[Boydie]

wrong, wrong wrong, faster on 500 kilometers of serious corrugations is not the way to drive, the correct way is to lower your tyre pressure down to around 12-15 PSI and drive at 20 kilometers per hour . The lower tyre pressure allows the tyre to roll over the corrugation, the lower pressure while making the drive more comfortable does cause the tyre to heat up so the lower speed not only is essential but keeps the tyre temperature down. As for the TGV boost 20PSI is impressive but is it nessersary ? I get very good economy as it is, will this improve with the improved boost? I doubt it, what it will do is increase the EGT and with ambients of 40 degrees Celcius the cooler the engine the better

[TheRecklessEngineer]

Ignore this post. I'm talking rubbish.

[Boydie]

You must be a politician - they say nothing and still speak rubbish on the other hand maybe not, you admitted to it they never do :-)

[Boydie]

now I'm in a real quandry as the crank in my Disco is stuffed, my own fault really as I "bodgied" it up in the bush several moths ago and totally forgot about it, what happened was the dynamic ballancer worked loose and tore the woodruf key out of the shaft, in doing so it wrecked the crank bolt.

To remove the bolt I had to weld a 5' length or reo rod and water pipe onto my ring spanner, wedge the flywheel with a tyre lever and with huge effort undo the bolt. I then used a small amount of chemical alloy steel (I always carry a tube in the spares kit) to repair the crank, I fitted a spare woodruf key, filed out the torn threads of the bolt and with liberal amounts of Locktitie Shaft Seal we were on our way.

Well that was 12000 kilometres ago and so effective was my bush mechanics repair (along with senior senility) that I'd forgot all about it apart from it was one of the reasons for building a new/spare engine until it coming home from a long liquid dinner with my ex-wife the motor threw both belts last one of which tore out most of the cooling hoses - again, I carry spares so I eventual;y got home !!

So I'll now be building two engines, a short motor with a new standard crank for short term use and the uprated 2.8 for a future installation. The new crank will go in to the present block, incidentally has anyone ever done this with the block in situ or does it have to come out????

[deep]

wrong, wrong wrong, faster on 500 kilometers of serious corrugations is not the way to drive, the correct way is to lower your tyre pressure down to around 12-15 PSI and drive at 20 kilometers per hour . The lower tyre pressure allows the tyre to roll over the corrugation, the lower pressure while making the drive more comfortable does cause the tyre to heat up so the lower speed not only is essential but keeps the tyre temperature down. As for the TGV boost 20PSI is impressive but is it nessersary ? I get very good economy as it is, will this improve with the improved boost? I doubt it, what it will do is increase the EGT and with ambients of 40 degrees Celcius the cooler the engine the better

I remember driving a stretch somewhere south-east of Alice Springs that had been used for some sort of motorcycle desert race. The corrugations were four and a half feet long peak to peak and twenty inches deep, for mile upon mile. 20k.p.h. would have been an absolute luxury! The alternative was to drive along a railway line, with built-in corrugations. No better.

Way off topic, I'm sorry.

Don

[Boydie]

I think I know the road, it runs from the Alice through Finke, Charlotte waters, Mount Dare and Dalhousie Springs, the old railway would have been the Ghan.. Again sorry off topic but with thouse corrugations its hard to notice any odd vibrations and on that track, youre right 20kph is speeding, Julie and I took 6 days to do it but then we enjoy quiet eveings around a camp fire sipping chilled GnT's in the middle of the Aussie desert.

[deep]

I think I know the road, it runs from the Alice through Finke, Charlotte waters, Mount Dare and Dalhousie Springs, the old railway would have been the Ghan.. Again sorry off topic but with thouse corrugations its hard to notice any odd vibrations and on that track, youre right 20kph is speeding, Julie and I took 6 days to do it but then we enjoy quiet eveings around a camp fire sipping chilled GnT's in the middle of the Aussie desert.

Yup, that's the one. I did it in reverse, detouring along a little-used track between Dalhousie and Mount Dare. Definitely worth taking your time. Wonderful experience!

[Boydie]

Again off topic but youre so right, this is Gods country for 4 WD experiences, no-one in the UK can comprehend driving over 2000 kilometers and taking 2 weeks and not seeing another person, let alone another vehicle.

[Mr Noisy]

Again off topic but youre so right, this is Gods country for 4 WD experiences, no-one in the UK can comprehend driving over 2000 kilometers and taking 2 weeks and not seeing another person, let alone another vehicle.

Amazing

[Boydie]

I'll detail the itinerary of our November trip in the out and about section

[Boydie]

Due to the specialised head gasket that the conversion requires, and the high cost of them I've canned the idea of the 2.8 litre conversion, if it was a standard gasket I would have gone ahead but at over AUD$150 each thats just above the pale.