bill van snorkle Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I've long been a fan of the LT95 4 speed gearbox. The t/case, not so much, but properly maintained they can be made to last several hundred thousand KM's. Although I have overhauled probably around 50 of them during my career, what scares me witless about them is that someday I will be required to remove, repair and refit the one in my RangeRover hybrid, when hundreds of kilometres from anywhere. LandRover did some really dumb stuff with the transmission castings on the 95. They cast the gearbox and transfercase together as a single unit, which in itself makes for a heavy lump to wrestle in and out of position.Then they go and do something really dumb and attach the long bellhousing to the main box with internal and external bolts, studs and nuts, meaning that the whole bleeding heavy unbalanced lot has to be removed as a unit. try doing that on your own at the base of two sand dunes!.Even when removed and sitting on the work bench, they are a cumbersome lump to manhandle around and work on,(did I mention that I am a fan of em?) Anyway I had a dream last night that I would get one of the 4" shorter 101 bell housings and bolt it to the main box via an inch thick adaptor plate and make it detachable via externally accessable bolts. This would necessitate shortening the primary pinion shaft by 3" which is an easy enough job. OK so far so good. Then I started thinking about separating the transfercase from the main box. I could cut the transfercase from the main box, leaving the back wall on the main box casting, and then with a 2nd transmission casting, cut the gearbox off the t/case, leaving the back wall on the t/case casting.After cleaning up both interfaces on a milling machine the 2 separate castings could be bolted together by another adaptor plate, probably around an inch thick. This will leave me with the problem of the gearbox mainshaft being around 2" too short to align the t/case input gear with the intermediate gear.Now I am making this up as I type. A possible solution that just came to me is to make the mainshaft gear self supporting on it's own bearings,like on the LT230 t/cases. For the mainshaft gear to reach further forward to engage with the gearbox mainshaft, I'm thinking machining down a 2nd mainshaft gear to an appropriate Taper roller bearing ID and welding it to the front of the original gear.This then leaves the issue of inhibiting mainshaft end float. That problem I am thinking could be addressed by machining the primary pinion and front of mainshaft and fitting a needle roller thrust bearing between the two. All the above of course will remain a vapour project as it involves a lot of work to address a scenario that may never crop up. It would probably be more more practical to carry a 4 post hoist and transmission jack around with me on those trips into isolated regions.LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I have an old LT95 lying around in the backyard and was contemplating cutting off the transfer case and seeing if I could put on an LT 95 - or indeed the opposite keeping the LT95 tfr case (TRB conversion) as I need it to run my 101 winch and putting an R380 on the front but I mainly think of these things when lying and bed and cannot get to sleep. But then occasionally dreams do happen. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 I know the R380 has been developed to a reasonable stage of strength and reliability Garry. But it is still a 77mm box compared to 95mm. That is quite a downsizing in transmission terms, and I'm not sure how it would cope with a V8 at full torque if you were pulling or towing something heavy on a regular basis. I don't have any long term personal use experience with the 380's though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Early R380s were a little weak but later suffix number boxes are really up to the task - Discos and Defenders have 3.5t towing capacity and seem top last reasonably well as long as the box is not laboured in too high a gear. While the LT95 box is stronger than a R380, the LT230 tfr is better than the LT95 tfr so overall the two combined units are probably lineball with each other and you have the advantage a 5th gear with the R380 and a smoother box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 LT85 would be my favourite startingpoint, if you fancy to start cutting and shutting. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 LT85 would be my favourite startingpoint, if you fancy to start cutting and shutting. Daan Is there a fix for the LT85 to fit better bearings without boring out the gearbox bearing holes DAAN ? I'm referring to the non split type 85's. Garry, I think tonight while dreaming, I will adapt an LT230 to a sawn off LT95, with my splitter OD in front of the 95 and my crawler box on the back of the 230. Almost anything is possible with vapour builds, especially in dreams. LoL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I have spoken to a dutch guy who fitted needle bearings in some places, and was ruunning it behind a US v8 diesel with good results. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Bill, you have another truck besides wild fing? Can we see it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 If axle propshaft lenghts allows, a mini propshaft could be used to match a no-transfer LT95 to a divorced LT230. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 Lewis,Aside from Wildfing, there isn't a vehicle I presently own that would be of any real interest. I have an 81 stage 1 V8 that I bought because the previous owner went to the trouble of fitting an MQ Nissan gearbox/ transfercase and Toyota 40 series axles to, but that is quite straightforward engineering. I have an early comp spec RR/LR 4BD1 Isuzu powered hybrid with the usual mods including a centre mounted PTO winch , a vehicle that was actually gifted to me. And I have a currently standard 84 RRC 4 door that I have received approval in principal by a Roads Authority approved engineer to fit Wildfings portal axles and 38'' tyres to. Well the approval was for Volvos actually, but hardly anyone over here knows what they look like, so..... Wildfing is great for what I originally built it for., but as I approach my Grey Nomad years I need or at least want a vehicle with equal abilities, that I can comfortably jump into and drive several thousand Kms in to further explore the less developed regions of Northern Australia, and I am hoping that a Wildfing MK2 might be the ticket. I admit to finding it difficult to begin dismantling MK1 though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 The isuzu powered hybrid sounds interesting, I don't suppose any online photos exist anywhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_grieve Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Bill, I'm really interested in your crawler box idea. How exactly did you make it happen and how robust would it be compared to an LT95 or LT230 transfer case? How would you proceed if the ingredients were a regular LT95 in the shed and a couple of spare good overdrives for it to potentially chop up and could lay my hands on a chain driven Borg warner transfer box from a range rover quite easily. I've also got a short LT77s laying around and a couple of LT 230's as well. I also have a couple of PTO units for both LT95 and LT230 with overload clutches on them as well which would be available to get incorporated too if I could suss it out.I'm looking at sticking it on a GM 6.2 V8. I've got a wee Myford type lathe but have never tried to cut any splines with it. Any tips or suggestions gratefully received!! Regarding the removal of the LT95 despite being a bit of a pain I reckon you'd still be able to do it standing on your head. I doubt you're that decrepit just yet!! I think the LT95 is more suited to desert repairs than any of the other transmissions and could function longer with e bodge due to lower stressed components. It could be removed by using the winch and roof rack / roll cage with ratchet straps and the normal stuff I expect you carry with you. if no sunroof then the tops of the doors are stronger than you'd think with a board across them. A couple of pre prepared mounts for the job might be handy. My back surgery makes me think about preparing stuff like this more and more. The way the mounts are on the chassis it will come out fairly easily downwards if you take off the fan to let the engine drop back and will lift straight back in between the rails using ratchet straps or whatever. The balance point is right at the front of the transfer case where it's really easy to lift it and lifting with two ratchet straps lets you rotate it to line it back up and one to pull it forwards into the clutch. I've never had much joy with jacks doing gearboxes in the field preferring to use as long a rope or whatever as I can to take the weight and allow maximum manoeuvrability for pushing, pulling, wiggling etc. I'm sure with your experience I'm teaching you to 'suck eggs' here. I'd have every confidence you'd change an eaton roadranger in your sleep with your boot laces and a bit of No 8 wire Myself and one other lad removed the gearbox from a Werewolf armoured vehicle using only ratchet straps and a combination of prop shafts and half shafts as levers and rollers and anchor points. We only had to remove it and not rebuild it thankfully but it was fun looking back at it. Dunno if desert heat where the tools burn you or winter cold where they stick to you is worse?I think Wildfing 1should be left alone and build something else. If not for my daft sentimental reasons at least for using as a qualitative and quantitative benchmark to compare the next vehicle(s) to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 need or at least want a vehicle with equal abilities, that I can comfortably jump into and drive several thousand Kms in to further explore the less developed regions of Northern Australia, : That sounds very appealing ! I think it's been a long long time since the Uk had any wilderness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 Hi Jaime. Re the crawler box. In addition to the one I adapted to my series transfercase, I also did one for a friend on his LT95 case. The Planetary reduction unit I used on both is the BW 1339 model, off the back of Auto transmission equipped Jeep Wagoneers and CJ7's. The heavyish Wagoneers were powered by V8's of just over 400 Cu in, so the BW units are quite robust and probably the equal of the LT95 T/case gears in strength. Their only issues on the Jeeps was that the Input shaft splines, which happen to be the identical pattern to those on Rover LT230's, can suffer the same corrosion fretting type wear. Also, as with the Fairey overdrives, the clutch sleeve splines, and input shaft, part of which is used in the adaption, are also subject to wear unless a bit of cross drilling and scrolling to the gears and shafts is done to promote better oil feed.The modification I mentioned in my first post, of fitting a needle thrust bearing between the LT95 primary pinion gear and mainshaft would allow The Fairey clutch sleeve and input shaft to be welded together, thereby eliminating spline wear at that point. I don't have a RangeRover BW reduction unit from a Chain Drive T/case, or a worn GKN overdrive to study, but I'd imagine a similar adaption could be cobbled together for the LT230 t/case. The BW 1339 reduction unit is larger in diameter than the Rangerover version, so would not fit unless a more compact hand brake (series ?) was fitted. I'm not sure if all the photos of the conversion that we posted on the Pirate LandRover forum all those years ago are retrievable,but if they are it would greatly simplify the explanation of how The Fairey and BW 1339 bits were combined to make it happen. Perhaps the ever dependable Michele from here has saved them ? A mate of mine who lives a couple of hours drive away is doing a crawler conversion to a LT95, copying a modified Fairey output gear, input shaft and front part of gear housing that I lent him. There may be a possibility of some photos once he has made a bit of progress. The only splining required for this conversion is to cut the 10 spline LT230 type spline pattern to the shortened Fairey input shaft. But to avoid having to anneal and re harden this shaft, the splines are ground, not milled or hobbed. Lewis, I'll have a look on the Photo Gallery of the LROCV forum to see if there are any photos of 'Swaggi' the name given to the Isuzu powered hybrid by the original owner builder.It did get around a bit back in the days so there should be something in the archives. If I can recall any other details of the crawler conversion Jaime, I will post them up. At the moment I am straining my mental faculties trying how to nut out a crawler box conversion using the Hi/low reduction section of a Nissan GU/GQ transfercase, using the same principal of feeding back through the PTO aperture as with the Fairey/BW crawlers. The BW 1339 units are becoming quite rare, because although many thousands of AUTO Wagoneers and CJ7's were sold back in the day, Low range was actually an extra cost option that wasn't always requested, particularly in the USA. Re, field repairs and LT95's.Most of the t/case can be dis and reassembled with the transmission in situ, and incidences of catastrophic familiar of the main box are very rare,except for when the mainshaft rear circlip groove or circlip itself lets go, but the afore mentioned needle thrust bearing mod should sort that. so on reflection I think I will leave the rest alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Any idea of how much torque can withstand the 95? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted August 15, 2013 Author Share Posted August 15, 2013 Any idea of how much torque can withstand the 95? No, not really, and IMO it would depend on the torque characteristics of the particular engine. For low speed, technical,severe gulley/rock style offroading, I'm not a fan of the Isuzu 4Bd1 3.9 diesel as fitted to Swaggi, because it's torque pulses, akin to 4 sledge hammer blows every 2 revolutions, have the ability to smash everything in the transmission if driven by someone who isn't mechanically in tune with the vehicle. Yet a 3.9 V8 petrol that developes similar torque, but different characteristics, more akin to 8 lighter, more closely spaced hammer blows is much more forgiving and easier on the transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 The trend to lighter flywheels , seems to be unfriendly towards transmissions, as more of the "hammer blows" are transmitted thru to drivetrain components . Landrover were always heavy flywheel utilizers , which made them slightly slower with acceleration , but smooth at very low revs under load , a beneficial characteristic with a off road style vehicle. JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Right enough with the "vapour" time for the real thing well part of... I'm divorcing the transfercase Planing on welding a plug in the reverse gear shaft hole, going to fit a seal infront of the main bearing and then machine a mounting face on this side... don't have the trans yet so don't know how long I need to make the shaft but if there is going to be a bit there I'll look at running another bearing in the sandwich plate as per bills suggestion any other suggestions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 A suggestion. Unless you are planning to run a pto or overdrive, I would ditch the mainshaft ball bearing in favour of a tapered roller with a larger inside diameter, machine up a new pto cover to take a tapered roller also. The larger inside diameter of the tapered rollers could give a bit more space to allow the mainshaft gear to be bored out and tig welded to an internally splined shaft ala LT230 for a shortish, compact adaption that won't encroach too much on the length of the rear propshaft, bearing in mind that the lt95 t/case is already around 100mm thicker than a series t/case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 LOL working on a cheap option for the PTO, was planing on doing this later.... from what I've seen on the net of the LT230 mated to the 700 holden trans I have to space it to give it room to fit the UJ before the trans sump, is the shaft strength enough of an issue that I need to do something with if so do you think its worth doing opposing tapered rollers on the front As for sorceing LT230 parts LOL I'd rather not last one that sold on our version of ebay went for $460 silly pricing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 As nice as the LT230 is, that large diameter front housing makes it difficult to adapt to some transmissions without the whole assembly ending up too long for SWB vehicles that have lots of articulation. The LT95 front housing is much flatter and more compact, making for a shorter conversion. Personally, I feel that once the mainshaft is relieved of side thrust by making the mainshaft gear self supporting on its own tapered roller bearings, then the mainshaft itself doesn't need to be as big and strong as a shaft that has to deliver torque and resist side thrust. The LT77/R380 10 spline mainshafts are testament to that principal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Came to a conclusion today working out how I sort the PTO drive I"m not going to do tappered rollers I'm not even going to add another bearing in the "sandwich" plate between the auto and the transfercase but I am moving the roller bearing at the end of the shaft and replacing it with a 60ID 110OD deep grove roller bearing, the roller bearing will be moved out to support the join between the pto drive shaft and the piece I machine up for the dog gear... with the main bearing and this monster on the other end that shaft will be rock solid now that I know what I'm doing I'll post this up on the build thread... thanks for the advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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