L19MUD Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Background Vehicle is a 1993 200tdi Defender. Engine is totally standard. The water pump failed whilst on a dual carriageway, pumping out all the water and causing a sudden overheat, pulled over very quickly. When cooled and refilled with water (which pours out of the water pump) the vehicle started but ran rough and only on 3 cylinders. White smoke from the exhaust and the cooling system is being pressurised. White smoke looks like unburnt diesel to me. I have removed the head and sent for pressure testing and to be skimmed. All valve gear in excellent condition therefore I just plan to lap in the valves and change the stem seals. On inspection of the bores all are in excellent condition with the original honing marks visible on all bores. Engine has done 180k miles, owned by myself for the last 80k and serviced every 6k miles. Prior to overheat engine did not smoke and did not have any knocks/rattles. Two of the pistons have slight damage around the edge, evidence of piston material was at the top of the two bores affected, this was easily removed to show no damage to the bores. I suspect they expanded and then stuck at the top of the bores when hot. My plan would be to replace all 4 pistons, pushing them up from the bottom of the engine after removing the sump. Parts I intend to change are 4 Complete pistons Sump gasket Head gasket (3 hole) Head bolts Top end complete seal/gasket set (rocker gasket, stem seals, inlet and outlet gasket, etc) Water pump Cam belt Cam belt tensioner All heater hoses Service injectors Would you advise replacing any other parts? I was not planning to replace main bearings/ conrod bearings (unless conrod bearings look worn) I plan to keep the truck for the foreseeable future so want to do what I can to maintain future reliability, but I don’t have the time or the money at the moment to go too much further than the above unless really necessary – moving house in 2 weeks so this is not ideal!!!! Any advice gratefully received, I’m used to doing heads but changing pistons is new territory to me. Thanks Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Unless you're going to buy the nozzles and service the injectors yourself, I can't see why you want to service them, especially if money is tight, unless absolutely necessary. I'd get the head back on first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Personally at that mileage, I would swap out the big end bearings for the cost -you will have them out anyways. No point doing the crank ones unless the engine is out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 Just had a quote of £75 per injector for servicing, definately wont be doing that!! Where can I get the nozzles from and is it a difficult job to do? I was planning to do this as the head got hot and was worried about injector damage Re big end bearings, agreed they are not much gold. Can I just replace them or do they need to be bed in? Sorry if that is a silly question. Also does anyone know the torque for the con rod bolts? I cant see it in the Rave manual Thanks Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 You can buy the bosch nozzles on fleebay, but they'll only just come in cheaper than the service cost you outlined there, I've been meaning to do it for 2 yrs now, but either way its a high cost for overhaul, and if you do it you cant spray test them either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 It's highly unlikely you have damaged the injectors , they are capable of running in the heat of combustion after all I'd replace the big end shells as Bowie said . I would also glaze-bust the bores at that mileage and check the ring gaps on the new pistons before installing . Scholar Engineering are my local engine builders , or Holbay may be nearer for you for the big end shells and specs for ring gaps/torques etc hth Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 Fair point re heat and the injectors - didn't think of that! Thanks all for the advice - I have ordered all the parts from Turners Any points to note re fitting the bearings and the tourque of the con rod bolts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason110 Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Personally I would get the injector overhauled by a diesel specialist, if you were going to do it. Unless you have access to a pressure testing rig you are better off spending the money in the pub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MECCANO Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Personally I'd probably chuck a rear crank seal in for good measure. But i've had bad luck with them in the past! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 As the injectors are 2 stage they need different testing equipment to spray test properly. Also re the pistins they wont fit from underneath as the main bearings are in the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 As the injectors are 2 stage they need different testing equipment to spray test properly. Also re the pistins they wont fit from underneath as the main bearings are in the way. As the head will be off he should be able to take them out from above though shouldn't he Phil? So long as the conrod hasn't been bent it should fit up the bore IIRC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 the engine has to come out to change pistons/big end bearings, there is no access with the block ladder frame fitted.that has to be removed to get access to the crank/big end cap nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Only thing I'd say Ralph is that with the engine in there's something to hold the engine while you undo the bolts. Gearbox would have to come out to get at the bolts at the back, but since you've got to get down there to get the bellhousing bolts out anyway..... Genuine Bosch nozzles are about £130 on ebay, and there's a good article on Landyzone about doing it. My understanding from it is that you don't need pressure testing equipment unless you are changing springs or altering the fueling, but I've not done it yet, I have spare injectors to try out on. As a result it comes in at under half the price of having them done by a specialist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Numpty question.... But would bunging the injectors into an ultrasonic cleaner clean the nozzles ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 That's what the Landyzone article does, but does require dismantling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 Hmmm, the workload increases. I had no idea about the ladder frame. I'm not keen to have the gearbox out unless I really have too, with the head off all the bellhousing bolts are easy to get to so I may as well just take the engine. Presumably there are bolts covered by the bell housing that go into the ladder frame? Doing the injectors is off for now. That will be a job to be saved up for. Having bought all the above parts, plus new turbo/intercooler hoses as they are fairly manky and a timing set of tools I have spent over £600 plus the head skim at £100. It is turning out to be a very expensive water pump failure. Wish I had seen the thread about a coolant level sensor earlier!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 If you have to take engine or gearbox out to change the pistons, it has to be worth changing the clutch unless it's pretty recent. On the other hand, you could forget injectors for now as they are easily seen to when the engine is back together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Before buying pistons, carefully measure the bores and ensure they're within tolerance. No point spending out on pistons then discovering that the bores really want taking out to the next size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 Clutch is recent, therefore the pain of removing the gearbox is still fresh in my mind. Agreed re injectors, they are much easier to sort ad hoc. I have a friend coming over who is more experienced in this sort of thing to help me with the bottom end work - I had assumed (incorrectly?) that as I can see honing marks on the bores all round each bore that they were still in good condition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 When i rebuilt the VAG 1.8T out of my A4, the "honing marks" (i presume you refer to the diagonal crosshatching visible on the cylinder walls) were clearly visible, yet there was a fairly significant wear ridge at the top of the bores. I'm not really sure how you can wear that much off the cylinder, yet still see those marks, which makes be wonder if they actually arent honing marks at all, but something else? The cylinders were right on the limits of acceptable size, but i wasnt intending on replacing the pistons, so i stuck with the OEM bore size, gave it a quick hone and used the standard sized pistons i already had. Had i been buying new pistons anyway, then i'd almost certainly have gone oversize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Hmmm, the workload increases. I had no idea about the ladder frame.I'm not keen to have the gearbox out unless I really have too, with the head off all the bellhousing bolts are easy to get to so I may as well just take the engine. Presumably there are bolts covered by the bell housing that go into the ladder frame? On my Discovery engines, there are four long bolts that go through the bellhousing and in to the back of the ladder frame. I get really cross with Glencoyne of modifying Series to 200TDi fame, because he counterbores the holes to bolt the ladder frame to the flywheel housing, and then covers them up with the bellhousing. ANY work requiring the removal of the ladder frame, then means that you have NO choice but to remove the gearbox. I drilled through my bellhousing to match, so I can get my ladder frame out no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted August 21, 2013 Author Share Posted August 21, 2013 I can confirm mine has the 4 bolts from the flywheel housing into the ladder fram. Engine out tonight Yes i did mean those diagonal marks on the bores - guess I will have to carefully measure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted August 21, 2013 Author Share Posted August 21, 2013 Things just keep getting better . . . head is cracked and therefore scrap Would I just be better off biting the bullet and getting a fully recon engine from Turners and return the parts I have bought? Dont know what to do now :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 A Turners engine will cost you a lot of money! You *might* be better off looking for a head on the bay of e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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