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RADICALLY ALTERED VEHICLES AND DVLA/VOSA


smallfry

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Back in 1992, I bought a 1980 Series 3 truck cab that had been converted to V8. The chassis was well past its best (it had lived by the sea), so it was changed with a 90 rolling chassis and rear tub, and the V8 was fitted to it. Insurance company was informed of the modifications and I ran it for a couple of years until it failed its MOT with a hole in the chassis. None of this mattered back then (or maybe it did) but I understand that nowadays it would be classed as a radically altered vehicle and that DVLA or VOSA or BOTH would have an interest in it.

It was parked up under cover on a friends farm, and has been there ever since, being occasionally used around the farm, but never on the road.

The chassis has now completely had it and I am thinking about rebuilding it as it has a certain sentimental value.

I dont want to have to fork out to re register it or have it Q plated, but as its effectively a 90 with a Series 3 body on it (or is it the other way round) not enough of the original vehicle is left under new rules, but as it was done such a long time ago, should I even declare it ? Its not a dodge for tax exemption, and what old land Rover is truly original anyway ? I dont see any real reason why I should have to have it re registered.

What do you guys think ? Does anyone actually have any first hand experiece of what happens with them ?

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I would've thought you need to think of it as a 90 with the 90s identity (if you have it) with a different engine and body. Otherwise it's a series with a different chassis, axles, suspension, engine, gearbox etc etc?

Or have I misunderstood?

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OK

The starting point and the key thing(s) here are

What is exactly on the Log book - is it a series is it a 90 ?

Does the Chassis have the number stamped on / in it by the factory that MATCHES whats on the logbook

lastly and not crucial - does the engine cc and number match the logbook ?

The very wierd thing on LRs is the body is unimportnat !!

Nige

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Do the numbers on the V5 and the chassis match , if not !!! If you rechassis , do you mean a new chassis eg richards , or genuine . Is it a 90 on the V5 . Do you have any bills o sale ? Too many negative answers could cause you a lot of problems , esp if you think of the not mentioning it route !

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I'm in the same position. I spoke to VOSA last week about my old stage one which has nearly nothing original and they said anything like that is a DVLA problem. They also said they understood the DVLA doesn't like giving out Q plates and it would probably keep the original number. Maybe because another problem would be if it got a Q plate I'd still have the original registration document and no vehicle to go with it. I'd happily have the Q plate and have to keep sorning the original registration document because they removed the option so I can't scrap it.

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Some of this you need to remember you are dealing with a body that has absolute power, and people that don't really understand what you are doing / asking.

Therefore you need to think very carefully both WHAT and HOW you are going to approach this.

If you kick off with the wrong opening comments and attitude / words, you might as well just set fire to your truck and save your self the hassle that you will get.

You need to read DVLA Radically altered vechiles SVA and Points system. Asking DVLA to "Help" you make your truck "Legal" is like asking a Doctor if you are going to die,

the answer is yes, the same question with some thought "Doctor I have this rash here am I going to Die" may give a more sensible answer to a sensible Question

One thing you need to be aware of is once you start down the road of "I wnat to be legal" you can't then change you mind.

It is not so much for DVLA / VOSA to tell you if your truck is / is not legal, its more for you to work out what boxes you need to tick to get it there. Chnaging my engine to a Rover 5.2V8

with an engine number that has zero relevance to any rover V8 was easy when I worked out what they needed and wanted to tick the boxes. Without every box ticked it would have

been a very different event, but, knowing how the system works, and EXACTLY what they need to make this legal engine I had changed to be on the Legal log book, legally

was straightforward, I have known others get into right messes with Inspection reports engineers reports etc etc, not becuase they were nay more / less legal than me,

but they didn't undersdtand the process and requirements.

However, sometimes you can just be the wrong side of the line, and sometimes that line is impossible to get back onto / right side.

As I said starting point is the actual legality EXACTLY of what you have on your V5 and how much of that tallies with the vechile, and in the cold light of day

Then, and only then can you see if you have a hope in hells chance of sorting it.if its already wildly over the line then you may have had it.....

Nige

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Some of this you need to remember you are dealing with a body that has absolute power, and people that don't really understand what you are doing / asking.

Therefore you need to think very carefully both WHAT and HOW you are going to approach this.

If you kick off with the wrong opening comments and attitude / words, you might as well just set fire to your truck and save your self the hassle that you will get.

I am MORE than well aware of that ! Its the same when some guy is stopped by the Police for nothing in particular. and he gives them a load of lip. They can make life VERY difficult for you 1 Which is why it always pays to be polite if you can.

As I said originally, it is a Series 3, thats whats on the V5 (Actually it isnt. It states "Land Rover Utility") Registered in 1980

The 90 rolling chassis was from a write off (Stolen Recovered) which was stripped of its state of the art (as it was then) 200 TDI engine and box, and all the front panelwork, doors, and bulkhead. I never had a V5 for it, although I DO know what its registration number was. The salvage people put a cutting disc through the stamped chassis number, as they told me that by rights, the chassis should be destroyed ???

I did have the receipt for a long time.(remember it was twenty years ago) but threw it away in a clearout about five years ago

i DID, rightly or wrongly, stamp the series chassis number into it in six places, and the V8 engine number and cylinder capacity had already been changed on the log book by the previous owner.

What i WANTED to do, was to get a new chassis made by Designa Chassis which would be a hybrid type thing.

However, looking at the points system and the rules, I can't do it unless it has a SVA test and is re registered by the looks of it.

All I wanted to do was re chassis a vehicle which has already been around for a long time in its present format. And keep its registration number.

Sigh

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By rights you should be allowed to do what you describe as the vehicle was legal when you first did it, however as everyone points out it's a nightmare to prove that should someone decide to open the can of worms, but you are essentially just replacing the current chassis.

Personally rather than plough the money of a rechassis into what you have I'd buy something with a more provable history and rebuild that (if needed) and scrap your old vehicle to raise a few quid. Of course that is just my opinion and is purely based on hating to deal with 'the man' and prefering the easy life.

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Surely it is about records. You are rebuilding a car that already exists so Photograph everything and keep receipt of all the parts you buy. Build up a dossier of the rebuild. As long ad it is a new chassis and you have photos of the old chassis, maybe even video, then you have total records of a restoration and not a custom built car.

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I'm not sure what he did was ever legal though?

The VIN/ID/V5 etc belongs to the chassis(monocoque in the case of a car) and always has. The rules of rebuilding things have been tweaked and changed over the years in terms of notifiability and procedure, but if you had a Mk1 ford escort that was rotten, and you bought a stripped out MK2 ford escort bodyshell, fitted many parts from the Mk1 to it and nailed the Mk1 plates on, you'd have created a ringer, even in the 1980s when such cars were common. To do it legally you'd have had to either use the Mk2 escorts ID, or inform the DVLA and earn a nice Q plate.

Using a used chassis/bodyshell to rebuild some other vehicle will always have earned you a Q plate, unless you used the ID from the vehicle that supplied the used chassis/bodyshell.

Had you bought a brand new chassis (even of a different type), and used (more or less) ALL the major parts (engine, box, axles, suspension, steering etc) from the donor vehicle, then registered it properly, you'd have been entitled to keep the age related plate.

As for your current predicament, i think that even if you rebuild it on a brand new 90 chassis, there will ALWAYS be a big questionmark over it when its going round wearing its 1970's numberplate. They pop up on here all the time on ebay for sale etc, usually with some similar "story" to yours and folk are straight off to report them. Sure you might have photos and documentation, but do you really need that hassle? If it does go poop-shaped, and DVLA/Police start sniffing around you can only imagine what the outcome could be when clueless penpushers start getting involved.

Personally, i'd be going and buying a rotten 90, and rebuilding that. You can happily transfer the engine and bodywork etc over from the old vehicle, and you can always choose the best bits of both vehicles and use those. That way you have legitimately rebuilt a 90, all the documentation matches up, and you'll have various parts left over that you can sell on and probably make back most of the cost of the rotten 90 you bought to kick it off.

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