more power from 2.5n/a

[jameshub]

ok - if you dont know how many injectors a 4 cylinder engine has then forget any notions about pulling them apart and replacing the nozzles. No offence and all that but for now stick to the simple stuff like valve clearances, oil&filter changes etc.

If its your first landrover and you new to spannering- you'll be busy doing all the usual stuff that a landrover throws at you!

I am very new, but learning fast and this forum is very helpful

[Phil Hancock]

I set mine to 135bar which is higher than standard.

My manuals state 135atm as std which converts to 136.78875bar.

[RustyNissanPrairie]

My manuals state 135atm as std which converts to 136.78875bar.

it might have been 150bar then - cant remember exact figure (going back a few years now) but it was higher than standard. Made a slight difference.

[jameshub]

it might have been 150bar then - cant remember exact figure (going back a few years now) but it was higher than standard. Made a slight difference.

I've used the stuff to clean injectors for a couple of tank fulls and ive noticed on start up I am now getting lots of blue smoke

is this normal?

[Eightpot]

The n/a engine is a little smokey at the best of times, but if you haven't changed the oil, filter and air filter yet then give that a go first as it can make quite a difference. you might find you need to clean quite a lot of oil out of the air filter housing and pipes as well, which is quite normal.

The engine will also smoke more if the timing isn't set properly. If you want to get it set up nicely and have a go yourself, buy yourself a timing belt kit and a set of timing pins (some quite cheap kits on ebay) and read the technical archive on this forum to see how to do it.

I wouldn't worry too much about injectors at this stage until you've done the basics, then if it still feels down on power and smokey it something that can be looked into.

you don't mention where you are located by the way - someone local may be able to help.

[jameshub]

The n/a engine is a little smokey at the best of times, but if you haven't changed the oil, filter and air filter yet then give that a go first as it can make quite a difference. you might find you need to clean quite a lot of oil out of the air filter housing and pipes as well, which is quite normal.

The engine will also smoke more if the timing isn't set properly. If you want to get it set up nicely and have a go yourself, buy yourself a timing belt kit and a set of timing pins (some quite cheap kits on ebay) and read the technical archive on this forum to see how to do it.

I wouldn't worry too much about injectors at this stage until you've done the basics, then if it still feels down on power and smokey it something that can be looked into.

you don't mention where you are located by the way - someone local may be able to help.

I did the oil and also oil filters about 8 months ago......also noticed last night that the oil level seems to have dropped to below LOW in this time.......is that normal?

i'm in Essex so any help very welcome as i'm keen to learn but don't really have anyone with knowledge to show me or get me started

[Eightpot]

Eight months with regular use, you're probably due another oil change. Difficult to say if you're using a lot of oil over normal, but these engines do blow a lot of oil out of the breather and through the air intake - it was a bit of a design flaw.

To get to the crux of your questions, the 2.5 n/a is an underpowered engine designed to work in all global markets, on fuel of varying quality, by drivers of all skill levels. It is designed to get you from A>B with maximum reliability. it's a very unstressed engine : )

in peak form, well set up, they are adequate. When they are over 20 years old with worn out parts and poorly maintained, they feel below par. On a plus side though, as they are in such a low state of tune, you really have to go out of your way to break one - they chug on forever with below 70bhp in a strong 2.5 litre engine. By and large, just making sure bog standard servicing is done and making sure timing is set correctly when changing the timing belt will keep them in decent order, all standard service book stuff.

Worth bearing in mind that there are plenty of other things on ageing LR's that will affect performance, more noticeably on older engines of modest output... Tyre pressures, binding brakes, badly adjusted handbrake drums etc - so again it's worth starting from the basics and working forwards from there

[unionjak]

Just doing the following helped my 2.5 n/a...

Hand brake was binding, so this was sorted. Now i can go over 40mph

Tyre pressure...keep your tyre pressure up on roads. I still have the 7.50x16 mod tyres so less width is roughly less drag.

On road journeys i always put the higher octane diesel in the tank. I have a 12j engine with the hardened pistons/crank etc that was to be a 19j so no worries there.

Dont over load. If you are taking it overlanding or camping see where you can lighten the load. I have chosen the lightweight philosophy by backpackers and used it for camping etc. Makes you think twice before you take mega heavy camping stuff with you and is engine sympathetic.

steve.

[daslandroverman]

The girlfriends Series 3 has a fairly healthy 2.5 in it, goes very well for what it is.

It's in my plan to fit the 300 Tdi Bosch pump on it when I get round to changing the timing belt.

I don't expect miracles, but hoping for better starting (it's already good compared to some) and perhaps a bit more go about it, as frankly the CAV pumps are carp.

[bushwhacker]

I have had my 110 2.5na for 12 years lived with its lack of get up and go for about first 4 or 5 years. Along came 200tdi Disco the 110 seen even less use. I could write a book but made the decision to tdi the 110 I wasn't fussed 300 or 200 but ended up getting a 300 from my mate,, thanks Jervie. Conversion done about 6 weeks now my face is sore with grinning.

Save for a conversion but keep the na running as best you can without forking out good hard earned money.You will not beleive the difference a tdi will make. Get power steering to.

[deep]

I have a 2.5 na diesel 110 (ex Singapore Air Force) that I am slowly putting together, so I read this thread with interest. Many years ago, I ran a 2.25 109. That was remarkably gutless but economy was excellent (a very constant 30 m.p.g. on any sort of run, even better before I fitted an overdrive...). I was hoping the economy on the 2.5 would be similar. Is it? I note the 110 feels far "crisper" (the motor was newly rebuilt by the military) that the 109. It should be fine on the road (55 mph cruising is fine for me) but I suspect it will struggle off road in soft conditions, as I am used to a 3.9 V8 and 3.3 in-line 6!

I do have a question about the breathing, as mentioned above. Is the breather on the rocker cover the only one or is there another one? I can't actually see anything obvious and a quick look at the Haynes manual wasn't helpful.

I ask because I left it idling for too long one day, to charge the battery, and oil started working its way past the dipstick. Obviously the crankcase is pressurising. It's quite a worry as there is a lot of evidence the rebuild was comprehensive. However, I know how easy it is to put a gasket on back to front or otherwise block a breather.

[FridgeFreezer]

General rule before doing anything to any engine for more power: Is it actually running right in the 1st place?

How many people ever actually do a proper full service, check & adjust everything as per the factory service/overhaul manual? The truck is decades old, chances are it's never had a proper going over in its entire life. It might've left the factory with a mighty 70hp but by now it could be down to 40hp for all anyone knows.

There's plenty of bits that wear out and cause the whole thing to drift off tune, cumulatively they all add up and can really stuff performance.

Tappet adjustment can make a huge difference on engines with adjustable ones. A mate of a mate recently splashed out for a properly rebuilt injector pump for a poorly 200TDi, when they refitted it they reckoned it felt like about the best 200TDi either of them had ever driven. Everyone farts about with them by turning the smoke up for more power or winding up the boost, but how many ever bother to check they're not completely shagged to start with? V8's will run smoothly and happily with half the bumps worn off the cam and the fuelling & ignition all over the shop - you wouldn't notice the deterioration over a decade or so but pop a new cam in & re-tune it and it feels like a hot-rod overnight.

The main question is what are you aiming for - undoubtedly dropping a 200TDi in is the more cost-efficient way to ~100hp but it is not a direct drop-in replacement, if you value the originality and character of your truck over a few extra HP then overhauling the 2.5 is by no means a bad idea, even if an accountant might not think it made complete sense. They're basic lumps so a good learning project too.

If you don't know what you're doing then find a good local diesel specialist for servicing injectors & pump.

[Tanuki]

Can be worth trying an 'Italian tune-up' too: get the engine hot then spend half an hour thrashing the nuts off it! Lots of wide-open-throttle acceleration in the lower gears; don't change up until the rev-limiter is well and tuly reached! Then a few sessions of *hard* overrun sessions [change down to 3rd at 65 and use the engine for braking; go for 2nd at 40, let the engine drag it down to 20 then into 1st until engine rpm is down to idle].

I've known this make quite an improvement on engines that have been subjected to a lot of cold-start/short-slow-journey mistreatment which cokes-up the piston rings etc.

Stuck piston-rings and/or the oil-drain notches in the ring-grooves being clogged with carbon/varnish can reduce performance and cause both blue exhaust smoke and 'heavy breathing' from the crankcase.

[bushwhacker]

change down to 3rd at 65 if I had done that with my 2.5 she would most likly have thrown all four conrods out the sides of the block, but then she was only doing about 50/55 just about pulling 5th before the conversion so it wasn't going to happen.

All I'm saying is if you never drive a 200/300 you'll most likly be happy with the 2.5na. O yes 200/300 are easier on fuel and I can now pass the breadvan.

[Eightpot]

I have a 2.5 na diesel 110 (ex Singapore Air Force) that I am slowly putting together, so I read this thread with interest. Many years ago, I ran a 2.25 109. That was remarkably gutless but economy was excellent (a very constant 30 m.p.g. on any sort of run, even better before I fitted an overdrive...). I was hoping the economy on the 2.5 would be similar. Is it? I note the 110 feels far "crisper" (the motor was newly rebuilt by the military) that the 109. It should be fine on the road (55 mph cruising is fine for me) but I suspect it will struggle off road in soft conditions, as I am used to a 3.9 V8 and 3.3 in-line 6!

I do have a question about the breathing, as mentioned above. Is the breather on the rocker cover the only one or is there another one? I can't actually see anything obvious and a quick look at the Haynes manual wasn't helpful.

I ask because I left it idling for too long one day, to charge the battery, and oil started working its way past the dipstick. Obviously the crankcase is pressurising. It's quite a worry as there is a lot of evidence the rebuild was comprehensive. However, I know how easy it is to put a gasket on back to front or otherwise block a breather.

[Eightpot]

These engines are renowned for chucking oil out the breather- later ones had a revised cyclone breather system.

Off road they are very good actually, I guess back in the day this was more what they were made for. Not a lot of power for sure, but I think the engine is harder to stall in soft conditions than any later engine that is compromised for faster road work. Sub 1k rpm with wide open throttle and they still keep thumping where a tdi would stall.

[deep]

These engines are renowned for chucking oil out the breather- later ones had a revised cyclone breather system.

Off road they are very good actually, I guess back in the day this was more what they were made for. Not a lot of power for sure, but I think the engine is harder to stall in soft conditions than any later engine that is compromised for faster road work. Sub 1k rpm with wide open throttle and they still keep thumping where a tdi would stall.

Interesting!

In terms of the breather, I have done some experimenting. The motor does put some pressure out of the breather, more than I would expect for a reconditioned unit, though there is little oil in the vapour ... so far. But I notice that the fitting on the manifold which the pipe connects to, far from having some vacuum at idle, actually pumps a little air out, which is bizarre. Totally unintuitive. However, it does explain why the engine pressurised after a long idle. Just yesterday, I bought a TD engine (just for the vacuum pump, what a long story that has been) and it has a far more complex breathing system. I think I'll just make something.

I'll be keen to see how the motor plays out off road. I have already noticed it is more able to hold on to low revs than either my old 2 ¼ or any turbo diesel I've driven but I was so spoiled by my previous V8s and current Holden six, which all seem to be totally un-stallable, that I don't have super high expectations. My experiences of a TDi off-road don't seem to match the general Land Rover world. Such a tiny rev range that you can use them in!

[Arjan]

Been using the 2.5 N/A in both Ninety and Series and they are very, very good period engines.

BUT - they need their services. And they need them done properly. We use "Bahr" injectorcleaner every other refill. I am no mechanic by choice but these engine are very well for DIY service.

Took the Ninety to 10,000 Ft. in the Alps with the 2.5 N/A on a 1,300 kms. roundtrip and did just fine. In the Series it is a great engine and off Tarmac very, very good.

You need to realise that they were based on a design going back to post war days and speed was not a design parameter when Land Rover put them in Ninety & OneTens. And if you want to feel "underpowered, have a "spin" in a 2.25 diesel One-Ten....

Speed records it will not set. But if you learn to live with that they are seriously good engines - and we have them start at - 20 C no problem.

Don't have the need for speed, make sure it is set up properly - go to see a specialist if in doubt - and enjoy.