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110 lifting roof (has begun in earnest)


Jocklandjohn

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My hi-tech design studio work involved taking a photo of the 110 side on and then tracing it on the computer screen (I could see the screen through the white paper!) with key points marked to establish accurate measurments:

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Existing LR back door - how does it open?* Decided that the lifting roof assembly should have a back door in it, slightly wider/taller than the existing door. This will be top hung and with gas struts will be able to be lifted (when roof is in lowered position) and easily access existing back door to get inside the back. It should also be able to be opened when the roof is lifted to the up position to allow big views and lots of fresh air when the conditions allow.

*Problem this creates: spare wheel carrier will be in the way. Solution: make wheel carrier 'swing-away' and mount it on brackets to move it a few inches rearwards to allow the lifting section to come down behind the spare wheel.
 

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Sealing it - how to do this in both the open and closed positions so wet is kept out when parked and driving? The long diagonal line on the mock up drawing going from top front to lower rear is a crucial aspect. Everything above that line is 'inside' when roof is lifted so needs to be kept dry/clean. Everything below it is 'external' when roof lifted so can get damp. I had a choice here - make the lifting section same as the Swiss version in pic in previous tweet. That creates problems as I have side windows and cargo track each side that will get in the way, and hard to seal. Solution: make the lifting section more like a flatbed camper with its frame come down to the mid section of the 110 and be able to seal it along that line horizontally, and up the side of the door vertically and then above the door horizontally. So in effect everything below that horizontal line is 'redundant' it does not do anything in the lifted position and exists only to allow the whole thing to seal when lowered and driving. Weight penalty to do this was minimal so that was my route.

So the diagonal when in the lowered position acts as an internal weather 'stop' for anything that might blow in, and when lifted sits parallel with the lower section of the existing roof and allows a seal to be made to keep the interior draught free*. (more on this later as this is a crucial aspect to consider)

I decided to use asymmetrical Z section material to form the door frame inner/outer

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Weight - will it be too heavy? Existing roof is just on the limit of comfortable lifting for me so the added section will be a bit much to safely lift (and I'm over 60 and not getting younger!). However even with new additions it is still not destabilising the vehicle as the weight is carried evenly along the length and down the sides and is still within safe operating limits.

Lifting it: - so how will I get it up with the additional weight? 12V heavy duty Linear Actuators. I found company that can supply very long actuators with a sync box to control the operation ensuring accurate and consistent lifting. These can provide 175lbs push each and are 1M long.

One major issue: the existing lifting roof can open as high as is practically needed, however the addition of hard sides means I am limited to lifting it only as far up as the distance to the 'waist' of the 110. This ,means reducing the interior lifting height by approximately 6 inches. I did some experimenting and it still allows me (6 foot tall) to easily stand up and move through inside the back, and when in sleeping mode with internal bed platform extended I can still get up into bed easily enough and although 'cosier' will be fine for sleeping in comfort. Also because the roof goes through an arc, the lowered 'shape' needs to have a sloping rear angle to allow the back end to be in the vertical plane when lifted which gives some additional 'climbing up' space for my shoulders.

Cost? Alloy material is reasonable, a couple of sheets of 1.2mm alloy, several lengths of 19mm box, thin plywood & insulation and some method of fastening the sides onto the existing roof - I decided on heavier gauge U channel inverted and bolted to the sides of the lifting roof. Only real significant cost is the actuators which will be £500+ and some kind of windows. So I figured about £1200 in total, £1500 max.

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Interesting project. I watched a video on youtube recently from 'The post apocalyptic inventor' where he made linear actuators out of windcreen wiper motors and car jacks. Could be a cheaper alternative.

Here you go: 

 

Edited by daveturnbull
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2 hours ago, daveturnbull said:

Interesting project. I watched a video on youtube recently from 'The post apocalyptic inventor' where he made linear actuators out of windcreen wiper motors and car jacks. Could be a cheaper alternative.

Here you go: 

 

Brilliant! Bit of a labour of love going on there. It may be a more expensive option (!) but I'll take the easier approach!

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Next stage was cutting up and tacking together the external frames for the two sides (19mm box alloy). Not having a properly flat surface to work on created some problems, some obvious which I worked around, others that only revealed themselves later. But I'd considered some of the ways that this might go pear-shaped so had a few strategies to cope further down the road. Once I'd got Steve the welder on the job the frames were quickly fully welded up and I could try them in place on the vehicle
 

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Edited by Jocklandjohn
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Next job was sheeting the frames with 1.2mm alloy. Started cutting by hand, strained my hand (!) and ended up using the angle grinder as it was soooo much easier.
 
 
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My very desirable  'workshop' boasts such luxuries as leafy vegetation, full 360 degree illumination (the sun), fume extraction system (breeze) and recycling wheely bins to work on top of - all the conveniences of the modern workplace....
 
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Next job was to remove the cappings along both sides and replace with a flat piece of alloy which is where the roof will come down to and seal when completed. The grinder is your friend...   Small alloy strip is simply a packer to bring the flat plate to the same level as the upper part.
 
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The alloy plate was then sealed with tiger seal and riveted.
 
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And that got me to this point. The odd gap at the end aft of the solar panel will be made into an awning basket - an alloy frame into which I can fold and store the rear canvas awning that attaches to the back of the van and creates a huge covered area. I had this sewn up by the local canvas people in order to completely cover the rear tent I bought (which you can see in previous picture) but which leaks in heavy rain (only a single skin). Its a perfect storage spot for it and will mean theres no strange 'step' in the roof line.
 
 
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Looking good!

Just a heads up - you're shading your solar panel with those bars, it will knock a surprising amount of performance off the panel especially if you shade an entire row or column, it can effectively block any current from passing at all as the cell goes high-resistance.

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2 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Looking good!

Just a heads up - you're shading your solar panel with those bars, it will knock a surprising amount of performance off the panel especially if you shade an entire row or column, it can effectively block any current from passing at all as the cell goes high-resistance.

Thanks fridge - I'd noticed that in use. The second from rear bar is only on there because thats where the J-bars for the sea kayak fit. Normally (when I need the panel to function properly) that bar is up at the front in the spare holes, but as I've been out paddling a bit this year I shoved it to the back. Getting the bloody canoe up there is a pain in the bum though! But once in the water it becomes a delight!

 

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9 minutes ago, Arjan said:

Very, very nice !

Envious of your skills though..

 

🙂   Skills = a load of messing about, wee steps forwards, big setbacks and then head-scratching to find a solution!!

For example?  Well how about the van is not square. I only discovered this when I made the pair of matched sides (well you would make them the same wouldn't you!) and when mounted with the rear section - made square so it's the same size corner to corner - there's 3/4 inch or 20mm of buggeration! The van basically 'leans' towards the driver's side. So I'm currently having to resolve that significant spanner in the works!

Anything else? Well the whole of the lifting section was moving that way too - because the clips that hold it down needed to be removed to fit the inverted U channel on each side to suspend the sides from. To resolve that I had to create two steel male V brackets to bolt to the roof, and two female V brackets to mount to the lower section, mounted at the rear,  that would force the roof to sit in the V's and thus in the right location. Which needed. bigger lock-down clips to enable this.

But..... this had a knock-on effect I later discovered as it affected the linear actuators which are accurate to sub-millimeter syncing, so if one was between .5mm and 1mm out when it was in the retracted position (with the V's seated but not fully down) it triggered an out-of-sync-when-retracted error essage and shut down the actuators. I've worked around that successfully too!

And the weather....!  A voyage of discovery!

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After a load of discussion with the supplier I decided to go for a pair of 12V linear actuators linked by a sync box to ensure consistent and equal lifting of the pair. I needed to fabricate a pair of brackets, one for each side, bolted through the rear body and floor to strengthen it to accommodate actuators, but also to enable the spare wheel carrier bolted to the outside to have a substantial mounting point when I refit it. Combined load rating of the pair is in the region of 350-400lbs push and 300 lbs pull. For anyone needing such things I can thoroughly recommend Gimson Robotics in Bristol who supplied these. I have an email trail a yard long with patient and informative responses from Ewan the owner guiding me through the complexities and requirements for a system to meet my needs. Made the experience of deciding, buying and fitting a lot easier having such guidance and when I had a hiccup he was quick to guide me to a resolution. 

Pics should be self explanatory:

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Space to fit them was tight, tight , very very tight. I could not get them in to try without actually cutting something as they're so long, but I made a plywood template of the lower motor  mechanism and was able to establish they MIGHT (!) fit. So set about cutting. I was very very lucky as they just miss the rear of the fridge by 10mm! And on the other side JUST missed the sink and plumbing by a similar amount. The lift they provide was too much but I could not establish exactly where I needed them to stop until they were fitted and operational and once that was done it was simply connecting up a programmer (that Ewan lent me) and it took 30 minutes to set to mm accuracy. 

 

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And it worked!

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Edited by Jocklandjohn
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2 minutes ago, Arjan said:

Good project.

I looked into actuators but for my roof it is not the solution as I need the space under the roof..

How easy do they lift the roof ?

Dry runs so far - ( ie without the entire sides/back/back door, roof basket to rear all loaded on) - but only the two side and rear frame is that it lifts it with no difficulty from closed to desired opening fairly quickly - they run at 15m/sec no load and probably 10mm/12mm loaded so they don't hang about.

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Control box stuffed with circuits does something! Closed loop I'm guessing. The individual actuators have internal encoders and 'speak' to the controller, which then feeds back to the pair. The movement is measured in discrete steps, something like 4.5 steps per mm. As I recall, for the 740mm lift I had to code it numerically for 3330 and it stopped bang on the 740mm hight I required.

The controller circuitry/software is commerically available, but the actuator supplier is developing their own in-house controller & software to more easily manage making up more complex operations.

There's a slight 'problem' with my installation which is actually a benefit. Because of the metal seatings I put on the roof to keep the roof aligned when lowered, there's approx .5mm to 1mm difference between the driver and passenger side when the actuators are retracted. This triggers an out-of-sync over-ride and the actuators will not then lift again (but only after a long time delay with the ignition switched off). This over-ride is cancelled when I press a reset button on the control box for 4 seconds. This is actually really useful  because it will prevent anyone fiddling with the rocker switch for raising/lowering it when the roof is locked down and maybe trashing the actuators.

Chances are the roof will 'settle' and this will cease, but in the meantime its useful to stop fiddly fingers!

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Closed loop makes sense - esp. for the money you're talking about.

Do you plan any additional "locking mechanism" or depend on the actuators to keep the roof closed ?

A friend of mine is into hydraulic & pneumatic systems and has designed something but takes a lot of space..

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Yes when the roof is down there are two large clips that securely pull the roof into the desired position. And on the inside behind them a pair of male V shaped plates pointing down which mate with a female pair to align the roof exactly. When the rear section is put on these  large clips will be 'inside' the overhang.

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Next stop spare wheel re-siting - the new roof in its lowered position would hit the spare wheel, so needs to go behind the spare wheel carrier. My guess was a chunk of 4" steel box on the bottom and another bit with the top cut to make a U shape at top would suffice to allow it move back far enough so that was added. I made the 1/4" steel brackets previously fitted inside (for the actuators to mount on) slightly oversize so I could bolt the top box section steel through and securely fasten to them. The roof will lower and the back edge of it will sit in the U formed by the box section.

 

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My mate Steve folded a piece of alloy using a template I made and I used that to form the rear upper roof end and it was 'fettled' to fit:

 

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I then cut up and drilled some L section alloy to make an edge for this upper roof section. This will form a 'basket' area in which I can store the awning tarp and can have bungee cords to hold it down. Its also well out of the way and the addition of these L sections make the rear look a bit more aligned with, and 'part of' , the rest of the roof.

 

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And after a mad session of open air spray painting etch primer from Halfords tins on the sides and back (waste of time - more of it ended up on me) and some rollering in a neighbours garage (better but hard to see what you're doing!) I gave up on this approach, bought a can of liquid etch primer, watched the forecast for a few dry days and rollered everything outside and shooing the bugs away before they got embedded in the paint. The etch rollered wonderfully and dried very fast. The 1K enamel top coat was a bit more testing - dries too fast and needs a lot of care, but I managed, and I have to say the finish is quite remarkably good. So good in fact I reckon rollering the whole van would produce a lovely job.
 
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Then the weather turned a tad damp so I had to improvise and ended up under the porch of my woodshed. Here's my woodshed paint booth:
 
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And thats got me to here. The above pic is showing the pieces on the vehicle temporarily - I need to fit the windows, various hidden guides and seals and a load of other stuff before I can permanently fasten them. Still got a way to go but its taking shape.
 
My problem is EVERY aspect of this has to be done so I can use the vehicle daily, which has necessitated some careful planning how stuff will fit/remove whiilt fabricating.

I'm hoping to get the sides/back on before winter sets in in earnest, but we'll see!
 
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I'm currently preparing the alloy angle pieces that will support flat plates against which the edges of the lifting roof will seal when its in the lowered position. Thats them on the van in the pic above painted yellow (etch primer) along the door edge and top (not fittted along the side/bottom edge where the tub cappings were, yet).
 
This was a 'technical' problem I had to overcome. Basically I need a flat 'lip' against which the lowered roof can seal. If I use a single piece of angle'd alloy I'd need to cut the outer edge of it to size - a really hard thing to do outside with a jigsaw and keep the cut straight.
 
Solution? Use a piece of angle alloy thats smaller than I need, and then put a wider piece onto it thats cut to fit the desired width, but crucially the cut (to make it fit) will be done on the inner edge of the flat piece so its against the van side and will have a bead of mastic along it to seal but also hide the cut. That leaves (hopefully) a nice clean machined edge facing outwards.
 
This approach also has one other crucial benefit - it enables adjustment of the seal in two planes, in/outwards and up/downwards, which will be really useful to adjust the seal as the whole thing settles. The seals are neoprene in various widths/thicknesses so there might be some adjustment needed to ensure it fits all around.
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1 hour ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Maybe I missed a bit but is that basket thing not going to fill with water and stuff? :huh:

🙂  Aha! Well spotted. But hopefully no!

If you look closely you''ll see a cut out on each corner - and the mitres are 'open' on the 'roof' surface by about 3/4" and there's a square hole to allow grot out. Snow will accumulate, but it does that all over. What I'm contemplating is a little cover to go over that rear area. I've got several lengths of alloy keder strip - the P-shaped stuff that can accept a  slide-in flexible nylon 'rail'. I can sew a piece of fabric Keder onto a cover and slide that into the alloy rail across the end of the roof and bungee it down. If it fills with snow just release the bungee and 'flip' the fabric and snow will fly off. And when the really big tarp is on there that extends out over the rear tent the cover will keep road snot and mank off it.

 

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I use this to attach my rear tent/awning to the 110 - works a treat - really simple and keeps the water out.

 

Edited by Jocklandjohn
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  • 2 months later...
  • 5 weeks later...

Hi Badger - sorry  I missed this post. Got them fitted and they work perfectly. Had to fabricate a couple of brackets to support them, but they lift surprisingly quickly. I still have to see if they will handle the total of the additional weight from hard sides and rear. I *may* need some additional lift if I end up too close to their max weight handling (800N each).

On 1/25/2020 at 4:44 PM, Badger110 said:

How're you getting on with your actuators?

I've ordered some off Ebay, they claim to be suitable for the weight i'm lifting and surprisingly they are identical to the manual rams currently fitted, so i'm hoping praying for a simple swap and away i go!

 

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