110 lifting roof (has begun in earnest)

[Darren Roberts]

Looking good! Keep up the good work.....

[Anderzander]

Good Answer !

[ejparrott]

How is your partner now?

[Jocklandjohn]

How is your partner now?

Hi EJ - thanks for asking. She's making great progress. She actually returned to work on a phased return to be able to take it easy. She has a slight left-side tic which results in her left arm/leg 'wandering' and this has been a bit perplexing, but we've been told it should improve with time. The hand is not so bad, but the leg going off by itself has meant she's taken a few tumbles. A couple were 'soft' - out in the woods walking the dog, but one fall on the 1st January was face-down on tarmac and resulted in a badly bashed face, nose, lips and two black/yellow eyes, blood everywhere. I'd been knocking the LandRover about and had skint knuckles on my right hand and when I took her to the doc for an emergency appointment he looked at her face, then at my knuckles, then back at her face and looked very sceptical......but when he read her notes he went "oh my!"

She cant drive for 6 months, and is still getting used to wearing the implant under her shoulder blade- it's a portable defib unit the size of a zippo lighter with a wire into her heart. We have a base station in the house connected to the phone line and when she's in range of the base unit her implant transmits a data log of her heart rhythm and if there is any cause for concern the hospital will call her and ask her to come in. If they cannot get her on her phone they send the alert message to the base unit and when she is back in range of it the unit transmits to her implant and the implant buzzes (like a phone) and alerts her to go to hospital! All very clever. If her heart goes into arhythmia the device can 'ping' her little shocks to keep the rhythm steady and if her heart stops it will give her a significant shock (and tingle the fingers of anyone holding her!).

She's been very lucky - 80% of out-of-hospital-cardiac-arrest end up dead. Her colleagues who gave her CPR saved her life. She's looking forwards to enjoying the lifting roof for a weekend away!

[CwazyWabbit]

Glad to hear your partner is doing so well, makes you realise just how precious life is when something like this happens.

[C18RCH]

Me - mask, goggles, gloves, hood, and although I could not smell the heavy vapours in the mask (proper 3M jobbie) I could still feel the effect.

So every new tin was taken outside to shake for two minutes, and it was mask off, deep breaths and then back in properly oxygenated. Its really nasty nasty stuff that tinned paint and I dont enjoy doing it at all. Its now drying and I may be able to lift it onto my LR roof in the next couple of days, depending on the number of neighbours I can draft in to help lift it.

I used a filter mask for my re-spray made by Gerson. It claims to ok for use with even 2k paints, although, I wouldn't risk it. It worked fine with cellulose though. couldn't smell or feel any effects. They're not expensive either, about £15 on ebay. Mine lasted the entire re-spray too before the filters got too blocked.

Great build, have been following it with interest. Eventually hope to do something similar with mine. Just need to get it running right first!

[Snagger]

I'm glad to hear the Mrs is on the mend - it's an awful thing to be suffering and the stress must be immense.

Great stuff with the roof. I think I'd have done something more akin to the Rugged Guide idea that seemed to get a few laughs - with the struts tidied up a bit and the lateral bracing following the roof line rather than the gutter line, it'd be very effective in raising the whole of the roof to head height in the tub area. As far as sealing the join between the lifting section and fixed front section, you wouldn't - you'd use a channel inside the roof, fixed to the front section, to collect all water and drain it out through some drillings to the outside at gutter level or some drain hoses running down the B-pillar to the underside of the vehicle, like the sunroof drains on RRCs and Discoverys. That channel would also be the bottom attachment for the front weather curtain.

There are many viable solutions, but yours is looking especially neat for a DIY job.

[Snagger]

If you want a stay-clean paint for the roof, have a look at boat hull paints - some of them have algae inhibitors as well as non-stick surfaces.

[Jocklandjohn]

I'm glad to hear the Mrs is on the mend - it's an awful thing to be suffering and the stress must be immense.

Great stuff with the roof. I think I'd have done something more akin to the Rugged Guide idea that seemed to get a few laughs - with the struts tidied up a bit and the lateral bracing following the roof line rather than the gutter line, it'd be very effective in raising the whole of the roof to head height in the tub area. As far as sealing the join between the lifting section and fixed front section, you wouldn't - you'd use a channel inside the roof, fixed to the front section, to collect all water and drain it out through some drillings to the outside at gutter level or some drain hoses running down the B-pillar to the underside of the vehicle, like the sunroof drains on RRCs and Discoverys. That channel would also be the bottom attachment for the front weather curtain.

There are many viable solutions, but yours is looking especially neat for a DIY job.

Stress not too bad for me - I've been shot at, avalanched (small one!), attacked with a knife (I won), kidnapped by a dog's hairdresser (close shave that one), caught in a tornado and hit by lightning, so all things considered this was relatively straighforwards! There was nowt to do but keep the show on the road - we have a 5 year old so he needed it all running smoothly, and I'm not given to flapping. But I'll be the first to admit it was emotionally fraught and once things started to look up and I was able to relax a bit I certainly felt drained. First Aid works. Thats the bottom line. My partner is hacked off because she cant drive for six months! But she's basically fine and the implant will save her if her heart stops again, and she's not unduly fussed - more concerned that she's given everyone a load of hassle!

Aye the rugged guide one is rather interesting! My rationale was to be able to do this without taking the vehicle off the road, hence the gutter build so I could lift it on and off as I needed. It worked for me. Others with workshops and more flexibility may choose another approach. My other main concern was - would it work! And doing it this way I had the safety net of not having messed up my roof until I knew it was actually going to be a 'success'.

Anyone want a set of alpine lights (free)? I took one pane out today, the other will come out tomorrow. Amazing how wobbly the roof becomes without them. TBH I wish I'd never fitted them in the first place because all they've done is leak!

[Darren Roberts]

Brilliant news to hear that "your management" is on the road to recovery. Whilst you mention that you don't flap easily, I'm sure you've been through an experience that would leave many in a far worse place.....

[qwakers]

fyi, white spirit is the best solvent for duct tape adhesive.

[Jocklandjohn]

Aye 'management' is back on my case!

Qwakers - thanks, will give the white spirits a go.

There was some puzzlement over how water will be kept out - so here's a close up of the front detail where the hinge is, and where the fabric side will terminate at the sharp end of the wedge. I've made these first two pix larger files than usual - 2400px or so, so if you click through them you can magnify and see the detail a bit better.

As you can see I've fabricated the lower section so there is an upstand that goes completely around the lower frame to prevent water ingress, it's 30mm high on the back and both sides and slightly higher at the front. At the front the hinge is screwed through the 3mm alloy into a treated timber subframe. You can see the various seals in this shot - from the bottom there is the black rubber gasket between the metal frame and the lower hinge leaf, then the hinge leaf (silver), the closed-cell foam gasket that fits between the hinge leaves, then the top hinge leaf (slightly open) and then the black rubber gasket between the top leaf and the metal frame of the lifting lid.

The side fabric will be bolted along this 30mm upstand at bottom and terminate in under the edge you can see here, screwed to the timber batten that is located above the top hinge with the knots in it. (What looks like white mastic running down the upstand is actually weld.) The exposed wood you can see will be partly covered in fabric eventually.

This second shot is taken slightly higher so you can see the upstand from the inside and the lid's lip P/tadpole section seals, and a 6mm foam lining above the seal to prevent condensation. The wavy metal end will also be covered but I can fit some closed cell foam in behind it so when the lid is closed it is pinched between the metal upstand and the wood on the lid. Existing LR roof is in lower part of pic with bolt through to secure the lower frame. At the top the fabric will be screwed to the wooden plate above and sealed on a bed of mastic. Its located almost 3 inches up above the lid's lip seal so I figure that's far enough up to prevent water blowing in.

Managed to get another leap forwards today. Fitted the gas struts but could not get the lid to move - the struts seemed quite stiff and resistant to pressure but I leaned on the lid and it gently whuffled down. I guess the pistons were simply sticky because they are new. The lid came back up just as nicely, several up/downs later it all seemed hunky dory. I did a wee bit of pottering around preparing to put some timber inside when I noticed that the lower strut bracket was bending out, and doing it on both sides. (The piece of alloy behind is a shim to substitute for the fabric pocket and ally flat bar that will be fitted when the sides go on behind the bracket.)

A hasty lashing and propping up followed, and then I had a look at the brackets and pulled one off. Definitely bent. Now I've followed the fitting instructions to the letter, and double checked my measurements, and it's all spot on. The strut/bracket info on the web shows the bracket in the orientation I've fitted them, however it does seem from a basic physics POV that having the bracket the other way round would be stronger as the force would be applied to the bottom, forcing the bracket tightly against the vertical alloy face its bolted to, rather than away from it as it is at present. I've emailed the tech fellow at the strut supplier for a definitive answer.

Still - at least it works!

[miketomcat]

fyi, white spirit is the best solvent for duct tape adhesive.

Or WD40 in fact you can use WD40 for most things you use white spirit for.

Mike

[ejparrott]

Wonderful news, and the roof's looking good too.

[Jocklandjohn]

Well the replacement bottom brackets arrived on Friday and I got them on this morning. Much improved and all-round a lot stronger design.

Next up was the roof hatch. A pair of small holes drilled through from below on each side gave me the location of each side, which was connected by a pencil line drawn all round. Then the commitment of cutting with the jigsaw. It was fiddly, but I eventually had the hole I needed. A wee bit of fettling with the jigsaw again and it popped in snug as can be.

It's a nice low profile design, self-supporting at any angle, and opens through 180 deg, so right over backwards to flat, has a semi-locked position for ventilation and the handles have integrated locks. Its pretty bombproof - 12mm perspex and rigid alloy frame with oversize seals that are well concealed under the frame.

Still have to seal it, but I'll get that done tomorrow or Wednesday. Really fortunate that this space was available for a few weeks, and although its a few miles drive to it, it's been well worth it to be able to continue working through the inclement weather.

[Jocklandjohn]

Ah well I did the deed this week - and whacked a chunk out of the roof, so no turning back now.

I decided to use a piece of red pine on either side and across the back end - apart from being relatively strong and light, it is significantly more moisture resistant than the majority of plywood (without getting into a bank loan for some marine grade ply). Plus its nice to work with. So fitted that first to give me a line to work to all round and then off with the jigsaw. The T piece that we used to support the lifting lid on the bonnet when it was getting fitted was the perfect size to fit in the back and hold the cut piece of roof up so it didn't collapse inwards under its own weight. Worked a treat.

I retained the strengthening rib just above the drivers seats where the roof slopes down to the windscreen, and about 18 inches behind that. Basically I've cut across at about 40 inches from the front, and this front section will be well braced and structural and form the front half of the bed platform, with the second half of it stored on top and slid backwards when needed.

There's not a huge amount of space between the lifting lid and the bed platform - only a few inches - enough for a 1" thick thermarest mat and an open sleeping bag. If I wanted more space I'd have had to A) lose some internal headroom below the platform which I decided I did not want to do as I'm 6' and don't want a crick in my neck or my knees under my chin when sitting in the back, and its good to have the same usable space below even when the bed is set up so we can move about underneath, or B) use deeper profiles for the lifting section and go higher externally, which again I wasn't keen on doing - more weight, more wind resistance, more awkward to build and fit. As it is it's 'tight' - but this is a reasonable compromise.

The added bonus of this is that it also leaves sufficient headroom in the front to allow me to fabricate a sleeping platform for my wee boy William (aged 5). With the seats tipped forwards there will be enough space from the seat back to the back of the seating area (just at the bulkhead) to provide a 30" wide by 50" long platform I can suspend from the channel above the doors on 4 pieces of stainless wire. With curtains all round over the windscreen, doors and across the bulkhead he'll be snug and have his own reading light (the existing vanity light) for comfort. The board can be stored under the seat cushions or on the floor when not in use, or maybe folded down the back of the seating area. The advantage of this is that it leaves the whole back area free for we two adults and he's well out of the way later in the evening and won't have to be disturbed.

The pine gives a nice lip all round to catch and store the fabric from the sides when the lid is closed, and handy for putting a mug of tea or some pot plants on. Although William is determined to have a model railway on it (which may actually happen - he has some lovely wooden track I can use.......we'll see!).

To finish it off.....well I have no idea. I dashed off to collect William from school just after cutting the roof so had little time to consider options - but I think there will be some substantial bracing across the front cut to strengthen that bit, which is also where the loading from the gas struts comes down, so that will be useful to have - I may use some metal for this. And then some timber along both sides and the rear to strengthen the cut edges, which might be a sold batten with a rebate to fit over the edge.

At the sides there will be some verticals coming up from the wheelarch boxes (mines a hard top so has full-length arches internally) which will be located at the crucial points where the internal fittings start/end (sink, fridge, cooker etc), and these might form a floor to pine-lip cupboard so give storage and provide support too. The bracing for the end of the bed nearest the back door will be attached to the bed platform and slot into a rebate on either side so will be strong enough to support two adults and particularly the loading when climbing onto it. The retained curvy bits of roof are amazingly strong - that big curve really stiffens it up. It's just a shame I had the alpine lights in - they leaked like crazy all the time and have left that area a bit wibbly and needing additional reinforcing.

The black stuff you can see between roof alloy and the carpet is an inch of closed cell foam - have that all round the vehicle and its pretty good for keeping noise and condensation at bay, heat in and cold out.

The hollow at the front of the bed where the roof dips is sufficient to install some speakers, or various electronic bits that need space but be kept out of the way. I'm going to cut a pair of vents in the front right above the windscreen so that warm air can circulate up and under the bed area in the dip, and then cut some holes in the sleeping platform so the top is well aired, and this will help stop condensation.

[mmgemini]

Good very neat work. How did you manage the straight cut with the jig saw ?

I'm looking forward to seeing this.

[Jocklandjohn]

Good very neat work. How did you manage the straight cut with the jig saw ?

I'm looking forward to seeing this.

Thanks Mike.

I drew a line with a felt pen along the side of the pine boards, drilled to get started and then followed the line by eye. I did think about a guide but it was an additional bit of messing about and not really necessary as the roof edge will be 'sandwiched' between the pine board above and a 1-3/4' square pine section underneath and the two of them screwed together through the alloy, then a slim facing over the join to conceal and prettify it. I hate to say it but there was an air of Ikea about it with the pine and all the light coming in through the no-roof!

I fabbed this 'sandwich' up this morning and simply clamped it as a dry run to see what it was like, and it was incredibly rigid along the length of the roof, and an additional brace across the cut edge behind the seats made it very rigid widthwise too.

[mmgemini]

I get a multi use tool. One with half a saw blade that vibrates. I'd wanted one when I first started the trailer but I wasn't prepared to pay the prices asked.Then ALDI had theirs on offer for 30 quid. I jumped at it. A super tool. Cut's 1/4" alli easily but very slowly.

[Jocklandjohn]

Aye I picked up one of those and its an amazingly useful bit of kit, I've been doing all sorts of jobs with it I'd have struggled with. I didn't realize your comment was a question about which tool I'd used! I did most of it with the jigsaw but some of the fiddly bits where I'd to cut back the strengthening ribs I used the oscillating tool.

[ejparrott]

Every time I use a guide with the jigsaw or a bandsaw it ends up worse than when I do it by eye to a line......

[Jocklandjohn]

Every time I use a guide with the jigsaw or a bandsaw it ends up worse than when I do it by eye to a line......

Ha! Aye the bl00dy guide wanders and because you're leaning against it the blade shoots off and either breaks or whacks a chunk out of the work.

[Jocklandjohn]

More progress. Roof hatch now clarted with Sikaflex and screwed down tight so hopefully waterproof.

And inside trimming around the roof hole is under way. Some of this work is the 'you-can't-see-this-but-it's-really-important' stuff that is fiddly fiddly and taking up loads of time. Basically when I whacked the hole out of the roof I cut through the strengthening rib in the middle of the van, the one that runs across the width, and also the one that runs front to back. So to tie these four cut-points into the new structure I'm plugging the holes with some wood, which is screwed into place with a couple of screws coming up from below through the rib's alloy.

Once its hammered in and solidly fastened, the surplus is cut off.

Then the square pine is installed, and screwed through in to the wood-filled rib. It forms the lowest part of what is basically a sandwich with the pine plate on top (as shown in previous post), the metal of the old roof, a packing piece, then square pine at bottom. A slim facing will cover the joint on the vertical face. And underneath this (above the white hooks) there will be a thin plywood veneer on an angle from the wood where the hooks are, up to the back of the lower edge of the square stuff. This will run from the back of the van to the point where it meets the slope above the drivers seat (where the fire extinguisher is). Behind the ply is a void into which I can run wiring or vents, piping or whatever, or recessed lights. On the outside of that void is the new void I've created between the outside of the old roof, and the back of the new alloy that forms the new roof. It's going to be pumped full of building foam.

Alloy L angle for the bed platform to run on.

This is the sleeping platform - first pic shows it pushed to front end of van, so a nice big clear space at the rear to walk about in.

..and then pulled out to about 7' from front leaving a reasonable space at the back to climb up onto the top through.

And when the main platform is pulled out it reveals the two pieces for the foot end, concealed in the recess. To actual reach these the sleeping platform gets shoved right to the rear of the van so the 2' space is now at the middle of the van and I can pop up through there and reach in to get the foot bits and stick them in.

..this is them pulled out and popped in place to make the foot of the bed.

And then the complete thing all assembled, seen from above and below - still have to install the cross supports underneath - they will just pop in and out as required and be stored in the recess with the foot bits.

The ply is cr*p and has warped once it was cut - you can see the left bit of the foot is slightly popped up so that needs some remedy or other - maybe a piece cut from a new sheet. However what this system enables is the foot sections to be easily stored and pulled out when needed and to be used as a table top outside, clipped to the van side.

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Good work as ever. Just beware of the enormous power that expanding builder foam has. It could buckle your ali sides like the waves of the sea. Use at your peril! You can get low expansion stuff but simply because of the fumes it all gives off when burning I would be inclined not to use it anyway.

[Jocklandjohn]

Thanks for the warning! I was going to use it sparingly and apply gradually as I've seen it overwhelm jobs as the stuff expands madly beyond what was anticipated. I'll take your advice about the fires though and forget about installing the fireplace!