110 lifting roof (has begun in earnest)

[landroversforever]

Thats coming along realllllly nicely. Love the little bed over the front seats.

[Guest wunntenn]

Thanks chaps. Bit of an experiment but it seems to work, does not impede head room in the slightest (I'm 6') and the wee lad thinks it's great - he's near the CD/radio controls and the bed 'swings' !

[jbote1]

Great work!! This is really inspiring and motivating. I am also currently working on a project on my RR classic LWB, can't find an affordable 110 here in the states:). RR is up on ramp and redoing all drive train and next is the pop top. Would be great to stay in contact for future questions on fabrication. Great work!!

[Guest wunntenn]

Great work!! This is really inspiring and motivating. I am also currently working on a project on my RR classic LWB, can't find an affordable 110 here in the states:). RR is up on ramp and redoing all drive train and next is the pop top. Would be great to stay in contact for future questions on fabrication. Great work!!

Thanks - anything I can offer comment or advice on just ask. There's a load in info in this thread about the build with various drawings and material code/descriptors and suppliers so you can source what you need. I've tried to make the thread as useful as possible.

[Guest wunntenn]

Few more inches forwards recently.

Got the solar panel on and most of the wiring in. Decided to go through the back and run the wires inside rather than go down the outside of the roof and come in the front or side. I've got a mess of wires hanging about at the moment - there's the inverter wiring, a mains hook-up with RCD, a circuit for four led lights in the lower roof area and another circuit for three led lights in the lifting roof, a circuit for led external spot at rear, and another at front. The wiring on the lifting roof's lights goes down to the hinge end and is then fitted into some rubber tubing to give it some protection, where it bends wnd flexes as the roof opens/closes and all of this then comes through the remains of the old roof to where I've got the solar controller with all the rest of the gubbins tucked away behind the drivers seat (behind my head but well back and to the side).

Also, had my first longish distance drive with the van last weekend since I put all the lifting roof bits on, which has added a fair bit of weight. I'd done a few short runs about town and got a sense of how it handled, and added a few lbs to the rear tyres and a couple to the airlift bags, and it handles really well (I have stock LR Genuine Parts springs and Armstrong dampers - nothing fancy, and SuperPro bushes all round, which are excellent).

You can feel the difference as you accelerate, well 'accelerate' is a bit of an exaggeration - I went from slow to less slow, but a tad slower than I'd have done before I bolted all that stuff to the roof. But once its going it pulls really well and to my delight there is virtually no wind noise or whistles, nor any major rattles or creaks from the new roof additions.

I've also got the disco gearing (1:222 instead of the standard 1:410) so it bowls along nicely at 60 in very relaxed fashion and on the twisty turny highland roads I was able to confidently go round sharp corners with minimal body acrobatics, so I'm happy with the additional weight/handling results. I'll be interested to see what its like when there's three of us, all our gear, three bikes on the back and a roof box!

Just so folks have a sense of the details - here's some of the electrical doings - bearing in mind I am a novice in this department, but happy to experiment (but very very carefully with anything involving amps!).

Here's the solar controller and RCD for mains hookups. The 350W inverter is situated above it - that's its base you can see at frame top. Its still not wired in yet. All this is just behind the drivers seat, separated from the main area by a wood partition so its not easily interfered with, or can easily have a cup of tea dropped onto it.

The solar panel is at roof rear (the 'top' of the lifted part) and instead of running the wires down the outside I went down the inside, hard up against the inside of the alloy. The fabric sides will be screwed up into the pine panel at top leaving a good gap between the fabric and the solar wires.



All the wiring coming down the lifting section (solar and light wiring) has to flex round the end down into the lower area and I've run the smaller stuff through clear plastic tube (garden variety from the hardware store - I had a load of this left - I used it to run my brake pipes through to protect the piping). I reckon this will give the wiring a good bit of protection. The heavier solar cable is in flexy black plastic conduit. And all this well fastened down with cable ties or wire clips.

The lighting wiring will be hidden behind a piece of thin ply which I can fasten into the timber end to keep that looking neat and tidy.

The fusebox for all the stuff running off the aux battery is currently situated just beside the battery box, in the area between the front seats. However I've pulled out the third (middle) seat and replaced it with a home-made cubby box that conceals and protects the fusebox, and hinges forwards to reveal it.

I may relocate this at some point but at the moment its fine.

PS - The loose wires visible are yet to be properly trimmed and run through the black conduit, then fixed to the bulkhead - work in progress.

Also fitted a 12V socket for the fridge to run off. Put it into a piece of wood that will be screwed in behind the storage boxes support frame well out of the way, but easily accessible by simply pulling out one the storage boxes. I decided to put the rear end of the socket in a little plastic junction box for protection. Tied the cable in with a couple of cable ties and as the Engel plug is so tight I cant see it easily popping out. I may at some point get a better one or the proper Engel Aspan cable/socket that locks tightly in place but for the moment this will do just fine.

A few view of front back and side.

[bluehaze]

Great work

[Guest wunntenn]

Great work

I'll be glad to get it 'finished' so I can start using it rather than buying more stuff to shove in it! I seem to have gone through so many tubes of mastic, nuts and bolts, and of all things - bl**dy MC4 connectors for the solar panel! The latter are not easily disassembled and I've had various unforeseen cable routing challenges to get around so have had to cut the cables to go through small spaces.

Off to buy some more this morning - solar panel came off yesterday! It appears that the Sikaflex has eaten through the Halfords cellulose paint right down to the etch primer and simply popped off. The Sika is well stuck to the back of the solar panel but has cleanly removed the top coat of paint across its entire contact with the roof.

You can see it in the pics below:

So removing it meant cutting the cables to get it off the roof because I'd run the bare ends of the cables inside and attached the MC4's on in there.

Anyway - fabric chaps made a template on Saturday morning for the sides and back.

Reason for the template is that the angles of the roof make it difficult to get the fabric dimensions correct. You would assume that the lower edge of the roof would provide a straight edge to work off and that this would match one edge of the fabric. Well no.

Here's a drawing showing the difficulty.

If you look at where the upper end of the lifting section ends up relative to the lower section you'll notice that there's a big difference (I think its about 8 inches) - they are not in vertical alignment. This means the fabric has to have a slope to it, and that means that you CANNOT (as you might assume) use the straight edge of your fabric as a guide, and fasten it directly to the lower perimeter frame all the way round - it just wont work. You can see in the red dotted line where the top edge of the fabric will end up. In space!

Here's another drawing showing the correct fabric alignment:

And as you can see this means the fabric has to be a totally different shape and you cannot use the straight edge of the fabric as a guide to work from. This is the reason why we had to go to the bother of making a pvc template - just to make sure we got it right!

[CwazyWabbit]

......

........

Interesting way to store a bike.....

[Guest wunntenn]

Yes - I asked about that and the young lad just said it seemed like a safe place!

[CwazyWabbit]

That it certainly is, would be going some to hit that or drive over it!

[JeffR]

That it certainly is, would be going some to hit that or drive over it!

Wanna bet my wife could hit the buggeer

[Guest wunntenn]

Wanna bet my wife could hit the buggeer

Oooooooh ouch!

[landroversforever]

That's looking great

[Guest wunntenn]

Been doing various things over the last week or so - fitting plumbing between water tank and small sink, connecting mains wiring and RCD box, running cabling to the inverter etc. Lots of little jobs but they eat up time. The routing of wiring is unbelievably time-consuming.

However on Sunday afternoon in a lull in the showers that were forecast I tackled the fabric sides. What a bugger! An arm-aching, neck straining pain in the spine. Really difficult job - all the alloy stuff pales into insignificance compared to the fabric, mainly because the fabric is not rigid and can flex, wobble, bend, flop and stretch (a bit). But with the help of my neighbour precariously balanced on the stepladder beside me, it went on. I still need to fettle it a bit and finish off the internal fixings that hold it in place all around.



To be able to fasten it on I stuffed a couple of pieces of wood up in the end, sized so they are about 1" less than the fully open roof height (as pushed up by the struts) and then pulled the roof down onto those pieces of wood with the ratchet straps (green and black). This gave me a firm structure to push up against as I screwed the fabric into place, but also building in some 'tension' created by upwards movement and 'push' from the struts to help keep the fabric taut when the straps are released (in theory!).

When we finally removed the tie down straps and battens it ended up not looking too bad!



There's a slight problem at the back where we've perhaps fastened the fabric on a wee bit too far 'uphill' on the sloping roof which is making the fabric a wee bit prone to folding into the joint when the roof closes but I think I can resolve that issue either with tighter elastic cords inside to pull it in more firmly, or simply by moving the fabric inwards so that when the roof closes the top edge of the fabric is well 'inside' of the lower lip where the bottom edge is fastened - this will assist the fabric 'fall' inside.

What I've done is attach a spider's web of hooked-end cords across the width which pull the fabric in as the roof closes, but the back end needs to be able to pull quite a ways in to be able to easily clear the perimeter joint/seal. Hopefully be able to sort that tomorrow. When the roof is closed the cords are unhooked and stowed and the floppy fabric rolled up and tucked away into the gap between the lower and upper roof where it should be safe and out of the way.

An initial mistake was to fasten the elastic cords in a criss-cross pattern so the sides were fastened across left-right to pull inwards and the end cords were then hooked onto the side loops. Of course as the roof lowered the sides pulled in just dandy, but that had the effect of reducing the 'pull' on the rear as the sides both went slack. So I need some small hooks on the end of the sleeping platform that allow the elastic to stay taut as the roof is dropped. Little details but they are really important.

[mmgemini]

Good work. Doesn't fabric have a mind of it's own ?

So when is the first rurn out ?

[Guest wunntenn]

I tell you Mike - the wrestling I had to do with that relatively small piece of fabric was way more complicated than the alloy!

First run might be a trip to Glasgow with my son with an overnight at Glencoe or Loch Lomond in the next week or two. I need to collect more alloy for an awning and the sheet material for the hard sides which I might as well get finished so the whole thing is complete. I still have to connect up all the plumbing and wiring to finish that, and a lot of little bits that are still needing sorted like curtains and bug nets etc.

Just been looking at the dates in the metadata of the images I've been taking. It's exactly 1 year since I started this project these pix are from the 4th, 5th and 6th of July - this was making a timber frame to bring back the alloy from Glasgow, then the load on the roof, and the pile of alloy extrusions on the ground.

[mmgemini]

Yes doesn't time fly.

We have the lifting roof off today. New 100W solar panel being fitted. I'm pleased in a way I used Velcro to hold the canvas. It was easier to undo than I expected, I bet it's different re-fitting it though.

[Guest wunntenn]

Have removed and refitted (permanently) the fabric sides . There was a slight 'error' with the rear angle - I say 'error' because it's not a huge practical problem more an aesthetic one: the top and bottom of the fabric is the same width - which is not ideal.

The top should be slightly narrower to enable the fixing point on the roof to be out of alignment with the bottom - in fact at least 1" if not 2" inwards, which, when the roof is dropped, allows the fabric to more easily 'fall' inside clearing the closing joint.

If you recall this pic:

....you can see the lower roof edge and upper section with the gap between to allow the fabric to come inside. Basically if the fabric fastening at top and bottom is inline vertically it less easily falls inwards. I've designed it with tie loops sewn in in several spots along the side and rear onto which elastic cords are attached which tension it and 'pull' inwards as it closes but it was still proving to be rather near to the closing joint. Anyway moving the fabric inwards at the rear 2" from where it sat naturally and looked perfect has resolved the issue but created a small 'billow' of surplus fabric at the top corners which I've had to fold inside and screw down.

It's not hugely noticeable, unless you've had your head filled with this nonsense for the last year and your face stuffed up against the fabric for a fortnight!

Anyway - I have an electrical query. I've been given a new long orange mains hookup lead and I've cut off and used up some of it to connect internally from the external hookup socket to the RCD, also for the internals of the RCD box, and used a short length to connect to the 13Amp socket outlet.

The last thing I require is a decent earth wire and I'm reluctant to chop any more off the long hookup cable, just to get an earth wire. It only needs to run from the mains unit/RCD to the chassis maybe about 1m length - would I be ok to use a spare length of quality solar cable 4mm(2) for this? My thinking being that it's well sheathed, and multi-strand rather than solid, so more robust? Or if not what gauge of auto wire should I use?

Or is there some compelling reasons not to use the solar wire?

[Guest wunntenn]

My next bit of bodging is to make hard sides that can clip in when I need them. I'm planning on using Dibond alloy sandwich for this with alloy extrusions fastened to its edges for strength and to allow it to 'mate' with the various edges.

There will be two panels on each side of the van, and one folded/hinged pair at the rear, and In order for them to stack neatly using minimal space I don't want to have pop rivet heads sticking out the back where the extrusions and clips are fastened.

I've seen some of those countersunk-type rivets that are described variously as 'flush setting rivets' or "PT (pull through) rivets'. However they seem not to be widely available, and possibly only in large quantities. http://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/sites/www.emhartamericas.com/files/images/POP-Pull-Thru.swf

Anyone know where I might be able to locate some by the 50 or 100 packs?

[cookie64]

have you thought about using proper traditional rivets?

so countersunk alloy rivet and you just peen over the otherside, a litte time comsuming but once you master using them can be very quick and very satisfying.

[Guest wunntenn]

Hi cookie - well that's an option I'd not thought of. If I go down that route I can see this becoming a 'coachbuilt' confection though, so I may have to 'miss' a few rivets to keep it looking properly dented like a real Land Rover!

[C18RCH]

Have you worked out what sort of weight it has added to the landy yet?

I'm considering something similar for mine but my only concern is the additiional weight added for the once or twice a year that I would actually use it as a camper.

[Guest wunntenn]

Have you worked out what sort of weight it has added to the landy yet?

I'm considering something similar for mine but my only concern is the additiional weight added for the once or twice a year that I would actually use it as a camper.

Not done exact calcs, but the alloy is approx 40kg - that's the lower sides in 3mm sheet, and 3mm Z section, the 3mm L section that lifts with 1.2mm sheet on top, and 19mm box in 1.6mm thickness for the flat roof subframe. Add the 4mm ply sheet for the roof, kinsgspan, 20mm timber battens and various fixings and fittings and its up to 60kg. Factor in the roof hatch at 8kg and the roofrack and bars at 12kg and we're around 75kg.

A decent roof tent (minus roofrack) can be anything from 60 to 90kg. So well over 100kg with rack.

I've added a couple of water tanks and the fridge, and some timberwork which bumps it up a bit. However the fridge (22kg empty) can easily be taken out, the storage boxes slid out, and the roof cross bars unbolted if none of it is needed so that drops the weight.

Bear in mind I chopped a decent chunk of the old roof out so that's a saving in weight, but it was recycled as covers for the water tanks slung in the wings. But at least its weight that's not up top.

[Guest wunntenn]

Have you worked out what sort of weight it has added to the landy yet?

I'm considering something similar for mine but my only concern is the additiional weight added for the once or twice a year that I would actually use it as a camper.

And thinking about it overnight it probably amounts to the combined weight of two rear station wagon doors, a rear bench seat and a pair of fold ups, with all the trim and belts. (mine's a hard top).

[Guest wunntenn]

Awning supports just about finished. Basically two legs, each fastened on a side that swing out/in. No welding just pop rivets and nuts/bolts. Not as easy as it appears because the legs have to be different sizes so that the rear one can swing out past the hinge gubbins of the other, but they both have to be the same distance out from the back of the van when swung out (aye try working that out in your head!).

I made the left side (viewed from rear) the rear one. Made it full width and put the hinge on then made the right one and fastened it on, marked the bit that had to come off the tip of the left one to be able to clear the right one's hinge, then cut the tip off, refixed it and swung it out to get a length from the back door to its end and then cut the right one to that length whilst it was swung out.

The left one is over engineered as it will be where the door and zipper is (I'm having attachable sides that can be zipped on to enclose the area under the awning). The right one had to be smaller anyway because the gas bottle holder gets in the way of the bottom of the swing-out.

The legs each have a bracing strut that lives parallel with the main awning supports, with a wing nut release (you can see it in the picture below), then these struts swing down and are attached to a little bracket with a hole in on the left, and to the gas bottle holder on the right (pictured below), so they lock in place giving a nice firm triangle to support the spindly legs. Deployment takes seconds and the structure is very strong.

A piece of L alloy pop-riveted to the rear of the van just below my roof fasten-down clips will have the awning fabric bolted to it underneath, with a second piece of much shorter fabric bolted above on the upper side of the alloy which will form a 'wrap-around' to keep the main awning fabric from getting all covered in road snot when it's stowed.

The other end of the fabric (the bit furthest from the van) will be fastened (bolted) to a piece of 19mm box (you can see it attached to the end below) and when not in use will simply be rolled up, and when pulled out (unrolled) will fasten over the end and two small bolts slipped in and wingnutted to simply hold it taut. I may add a middle alloy support as well as it will help prevent it 'dishing' with heavy rain. I'm 6' so making more of a slope on the roof would have me banging my head at the end so the angle is fairly relaxed, and wont shed rain like an alpine chalet, so the middle support might be vital.

With some care the design should allow the zip-on sides to be easily fastened behind a 'valance' so the zips are protected and the whole thing has some integrity. I can add a couple of legs at the end if needed with a few guy lines to keep it all taut. The fabric design needs some thought because it has to have a cutout/extension built in to allow the spare wheel to go through.

I've thought ahead on all of this and the design of the gas bottle holder took into account that the spare wheel needed to come round when the door was open, and that the awning support leg would need to sneak past the gas bottle and spare wheel as well. It all worked!