Anderzander Posted October 22, 2013 Author Share Posted October 22, 2013 I suppose people move plates around .... I'll go for a look at the truck when I get chance and furnish more photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w896andy Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I have a Sandringham 6, 6x6, Series 3 Stage 1 V8 which I have been restoring for about 5 years which I'm just coming to the end of and going to be putting up for sale shortly (have to many WW2 vehicles to restore !!). Mine is a 139 inch wheelbase version. Mine is original as per factory build (chassis cab stage 1 v8 109 from the factory and off to Sandringham MC for conversion before selling as a Land Rover Special Vehicle option, The one in the photos could be a 125 inch version which they made as well although the defender arch extensions should not be fitted. They used the drive through middle axle as described above. I can give more information about how they were converted by Hotspur Car (Sandringham Motor Co.) if anybody is interested. A photo attached, more available if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I have a Sandringham 6, 6x6, Series 3 Stage 1 V8 which I have been restoring for about 5 years which I'm just coming to the end of and going to be putting up for sale shortly (have to many WW2 vehicles to restore !!). Mine is a 139 inch wheelbase version. Mine is original as per factory build (chassis cab stage 1 v8 109 from the factory and off to Sandringham MC for conversion before selling as a Land Rover Special Vehicle option, The one in the photos could be a 125 inch version which they made as well although the defender arch extensions should not be fitted. They used the drive through middle axle as described above. I can give more information about how they were converted by Hotspur Car (Sandringham Motor Co.) if anybody is interested. A photo attached, more available if you want. 102_7402.JPG I want more info!!!!! Happy to beg too if needed and possibly PX a grumpy cat and a broken angle grinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w896andy Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Nigel Well, a grumpy cat, a broken angle grinder and of course some cash and this could be sat on your drive !!!! I bought this about 5 years ago and have been restoring it since. I've stripped it down to the chassis and done a complete rebuild, it has to go now as I have some WW2 vehicles to restore and need the space. I've discovered a number of things about them along the way. Sandringham Motor Company (Hotspur Cars) adapted them for Land Rover and they were sold to the military and the likes of utility companies looking for a vehicle with a 2 ton payload but using standard Land Rover components, I will attach the original sales brochure. Anybody of a certain age may remember Electric Boards using them with cherry pickers on the back and the military used them as load carriers (could carry 2 x 1 ton pallets), gun tractors and armoured cars with either flat beds or extended land rover bodies (mine has brackets on the chassis for both). Land Rover took standard Series 3 109 Stage 1 V8 Chassis Cabs from the production line and sent them to SMC. They cut off the chassis behind the cab and fitted their own chassis. The only other non-standard parts are the middle axle, prop shafts and fuel tank. The middle axle is a rover derived unit with a gear set on the front which splits the drive into two, one for each axle, the rear drive is sent up the inside of the middle axle, past the crown wheel and out of the rear cover. This is then connected via a prop to the rear axle which is the standard Salisbury unit which came with the vehicle. The rear axles are leaf sprung as per normal series 3's, the springs overlap to allow the axles to sit close enough, the middle axle has the standard rear springs and the rear axle has front springs which are shorter. Standard shocks and check straps and standard hubs/brakes. The prop from the LT95 gearbox (mine also has a rare PTO fitted to it) is a lot stronger and heavier. The fuel tank is a specific heavy steel bespoke tank in the rear of the chassis, everything else is standard stage 1 V8. The chassis number plate is in the style of a Land Rover but specific to Sandringham with the vehicle details on and weights and riveted on in a particular way, the bonnet and wings have Sandringham 6 badges on. They made 125 and 139 inch wheelbases. Mine has had most things either rebuilt or new and needs brakes, wiring, a rear bed (local fabricator is going to make) and the correct wheels fitted which are rare 1 ton, 5 stud (like the FC101 which are 6 stud) wide wheels with extra grip tyres which I have 6 off to complete. I think there is only around 12 left around but as always there maybe more. Hope that gives you some info, happy to let you know anything else, I will attach some photos. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Oh I like the look of the canvas backed truck!, nice wee restoration, you're 80% there! such a shame to give up on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Thanks for your post with additional technical detail Andy. But I'm a little confused by the thumbnail photos. The first photo shows a chassis crossmember mounted drive splitter, and photo number 3 shows the regular Sandringham Thrudrive arrangement. Can you give some details on photo number 1 and whether that was to allow the fitment of twin Salisbury rear diffs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Bill, that is a bit of an optical illusion caused by the fresh paint. The chassis mounted drive splitter is actually the axle mounted drive splitter. If you look really carefully it's not chassis mounted but bolted to the axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted November 28, 2013 Author Share Posted November 28, 2013 Bill, that is a bit of an optical illusion caused by the fresh paint. The chassis mounted drive splitter is actually the axle mounted drive splitter. If you look really carefully it's not chassis mounted but bolted to the axle. Really ? I've zoomed in and it still looks bolted to the crossmember to me ?! Are my eyes going ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w896andy Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 CwazyWabbit is correct here is another couple of photos which show it better, I took the middle axle out to replace the springs and paint it. It is a shame as mentioned above to move it on but being the lucky boy I'am I moved into a larger place with a larger barn, this meant more space and as we all know empty barn space has to be filled so a lucky purchase meant a WW2 Diamond T 969 Wrecker (in the back ground in one of the photos) and a very rare WW2 Autocar U8144 Tractor unit arrived which both need restoring so the difficult decision to focus on those means I need the space and the money to fund the restorations, also of course my long suffering wife is now raising her eyebrows so high they sit on the top of her head !!!!! Oh then of course I have a 86 inch Series 1 in pieces to put back together and 2 Military Lightweights to restore, you can never be without a Land Rover !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Yep, it is really bolted to the axle not crossmember What looks like the bottom of the crossmember is actually the axle tube. Also if you look nearer the top of the picture where the square cut out is in the crossmember you can see where the edge of the diff/splitter is bolted to the axle case. EDIT: I was wondering why I didn't see Andy's reply above when I posted mine ....... then it dawned on me, I'm not going mad but Andy is still on mod approval. What a great set of first posts Thank you Andy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Forgive my ignorance, but does the drive come out through the first axle diff pan? Not 100% clear on the pics, well to me anyways. Would love to see one of these exploded, to understand better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Bill, that is a bit of an optical illusion caused by the fresh paint. The chassis mounted drive splitter is actually the axle mounted drive splitter. If you look really carefully it's not chassis mounted but bolted to the axle. Thanks Cwazy, I see it know. A good optical illusion for sure. Actually, for those longer wheelbase Military Hotspur conversions, that really should have twin Salisburies for reliability, bolting that diff centre to the chassis, minus the crownwheel/carrier, and with a modified pinion shaft would give the desired twin rear outputs also. Swapping around the offset of the rearmost diff wouldn't have been difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted November 28, 2013 Author Share Posted November 28, 2013 Yes - I see it now too. A real optibubble illusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w896andy Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Bowie69 Yes the rear drive does come out of the diff pan, the drive is split into two in the front gear stack, one drive goes to the diff as normal and the second goes via a shaft, runs inside the diff casing, up the side of the diff crown wheel and out the back of the pan meaning its all in a compact unit. Bill. I looked into this out of interest when I bought this one and came up with the following. If you think about the reasons the stronger Salisbury axles fitted to series 3 LWB's only on the rear it doesn't cause a problem with this set up being permanent 6 wheel drive (LT95 gearbox). Rover type axles were never unreliable they just were not as strong as Salisbury ones, Rover axles worked well for years in SWB's, you could break them if you tried but generally they were fine, I've never broken either a diff or a halfshaft in over 30 years driving Land Rovers even when I put a V8 into a series 2 SWB with all that power going through 2 wheels normally on the road (standard LR box). It was only when the heavier series 2/3 LWB's came out that driving them in 2 wheel drive on the road loaded up, if you pull away quickly and one wheel spins up you could break normally a half shaft. However when you split the drive into permanent 4 wheel drive they didn't cause a problem as the power was split 4 ways, Range Rovers, Defenders, Disco's, etc. all have Rover type axles and they don't normally break. Therefore split the drive into 6 wheel drive and the power of the V8 doesn't cause the problem. The only reason they fitted a Salisbury axle at the rear is that's what it came with from factory as a 109 LWB. Your idea of bolting the splitter box to the chassis is common on commercial and military trucks (all US WW2 military trucks for example have exactly that) but with a Land Rover you don't have the length and this is a nice simple and compact answer. A couple of other set ups have existed, a company called Foleys used to do an aftermarket version so you could make you own which also fitted in a standard Rover axle, it replaced the standard diff, split the drive as this one does but put the rear drive out of the top of gear stack just over the standard axle casing so you could make a prop to the rear axle, unfortunately the cost was eye wateringly expensive and usually cost more than the truck did !. The other factory built one is current and still in military service, they work more as you describe and are fitted to Australian Military Land Rovers Defenders called a Perentie, a very expensive and special build using a lengthened and widened Land Rover with a Isuzu 3.9 TD engine but retaining the LT95 gearbox, Back in the mists of time Land Rover fitted a 6 wheel drive PTO to the back of the LT95 in the FC101 for the military, this drive was used for a powered Ruberry Owen trailer, the PTO was worked in such a way that it was constant speed with the prop take off whether it was in high or low range (mine has a PTO but its not a constant speed one), so it took the drive from this PTO out of the rear cross-member and into the trailer axle (also a Rover Axle), this never took off as the trailer used to tip over on sharp corners across country but the clever Australians took the idea and used it for a 6x6 so you have 2 outputs from the transfer box both matched to the same speed. This therefore gets round the length of fitting a separate splitter box problem. The PTO one drives the rear axle via its own prop via a pillow block over the middle axle, they also fitted overlapping leaf springs as mine is but with a rocker arm also. These replaced the coil springs as the coil springs produce too much movement. These are fitted with Salisbury axles but the you are now talking about a vehicle which weights 6 tons loaded plus pulls a trailer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 I visited the chap who built it today and took a picture from a magazine it had been in ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 We have some ice cream vans in this area that use the system in the preceding photograph. It's been a while now since I had anything to do with them, but one is definately a Stage 1, Series 3 and one is Range Rover based. They have been very prone to smashing the middle diff unit. There is a fair amount of work needed to be done to the middle differential to make it drive- through and this weakens an already weak component. The six-wheel drive system works very well, under what is a very heavy unit on the local beaches, but they would frequently break the center diffs once the vehicles are driven on the road - especially if the driver had a heavy right foot. One way that was tried to combat the problem was to cut a shallow groove around around the drive end of the long halfshaft in the middle axel to make it a "fuseable link" . This worked well as it preserved the diffs and it was a lot quicker and easier to replace a halfshaft. In the end the rear axels were fitted with manual free-wheeling hubs. These were to be engaged for beach driving and disengaged for road work. This system worked well - as long as the nut behind the wheel remembered the instructions ! Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 This one has free wheel hubs - perhaps in response to the same issue, though it wasn't mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossberg Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 Holy thread revival Batman!!!! A friend of mine has just been around - he has the armoured version from that photo. It is currently coming to the end of its restoration, though it won't be original paint, infact I think it is now a fancy black that changes colour in different light. Quite an extensive restoration by the sound of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 We need pictures or it didn't happen. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossberg Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 It's currently away getting its electrics sorted, then I will go over and have a look. He said it's left hand drive and the wiring loom goes down the left hand chassis leg, so it needs extending. Apparently this is the first of the prototypes so things have been difficult or impossible to source. It also has dents in the side where it was tested with 9mm, .38" and 7.62mm ammo. I look forward to seeing it myself. He is having difficulty sourcing an aircon unit. It seems the original sat on the bonnet. He will be putting it through an mot shortly, though it doesn't need it due to its age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CSK Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 On 8/19/2022 at 6:26 PM, Mossberg said: Holy thread revival Batman!!!! A friend of mine has just been around - he has the armoured version from that photo. It is currently coming to the end of its restoration, though it won't be original paint, infact I think it is now a fancy black that changes colour in different light. Quite an extensive restoration by the sound of it! Is it NATO black and vanishes in the flash of a camera by any chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossberg Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Simon_CSK said: Is it NATO black and vanishes in the flash of a camera by any chance? I think it's more playboy black and turns purple in a flash. It sounds interesting and I look forward to seeing it. He already has a Shorland, but he has a thing for armoured land rovers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.