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beefing up salisbury axles


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Hi, I have a '96 110 (HD) with the salisbury rear axle. As it's done 150k and the vehicle is about to be fitted with a torquey 2.8 TGV, I'm looking to overhaul the axle and beef up the drive chain.

My first thoughts are drive members and halfshafts - what aftermarket options are available and recommended?

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Hi, I have a '96 110 (HD) with the salisbury rear axle. As it's done 150k and the vehicle is about to be fitted with a torquey 2.8 TGV, I'm looking to overhaul the axle and beef up the drive chain.

My first thoughts are drive members and halfshafts - what aftermarket options are available and recommended?

Firstly consider the clutch, at least the 130 clutch.

The special with the 2.8tgv that won the diesel class in the Dakar has I think 3 clutch changes during the event.

M&D Engineering recommendations here :-http://www.mdengineering.co.uk/index.php?act=faq

In case you have not heard of them.

Ashcrofts are working on H/D halfshafts for Salsbury axles and expect to have a solution soon.

My 110 with a 2.8tgv has standard transmission and running gear and is fine but with low mileage.

John

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I have a 130 clutch on order.

Still can't seem to find any HD halfshafts for the Salisbury... do they exist? Unless Ashcroft are putting something on the market this month, I'll have to keep looking.

Do the HD drive members for the rover axles fit the salisbury?

The other area I was thinking about was the propshaft - does anyone produce a beefed prop that would fit?

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I have a 130 clutch on order.

Still can't seem to find any HD halfshafts for the Salisbury... do they exist? Unless Ashcroft are putting something on the market this month, I'll have to keep looking.

Do the HD drive members for the rover axles fit the salisbury?

The other area I was thinking about was the propshaft - does anyone produce a beefed prop that would fit?

Call Dave at Ashcrofts, I spoke to him last week and he mentioned the HD Salisbury option, I did not ask him when they would be available but the inference from him was soon.

Rover HD's do not fit Salisbury's.

John

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Call Dave at Ashcrofts, I spoke to him last week and he mentioned the HD Salisbury option, I did not ask him when they would be available but the inference from him was soon.

Rover HD's do not fit Salisbury's.

John

Thanks John, spoke to Dave and it's another couple of months before those HD shafts are likely to arrive. Looks like I'll be going with stock :(

Does anyone know of any rear prop options?

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Salisbury axles are pretty strong to start with! Unless you're running big (over 35") tyres you won't have issues with a standard Salisbury. The only weakspot is the driveflanges. You could just use Ashcroft driveflanges and run oiled hubs but they'll probably work better with the shafts too.

As for the rest of the drivetrain..... You're in for some fun. Admittedly my truck does get used harder than most but my R380 lasted 4 events using an untuned 2.8tgv. I'm now on a HD Ashcroft built autobox and I've had no problems. Depending on use, CVs, front shafts and diffs may cause problems.

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Just running 265/75 bfg's no tractor wheels!

I'm looking at a set of HD CV's, halfshafts and drive members from Ashcroft for the front. I'm guessing these will hold up well.

The front diff is standard Rover, but only a few hundred miles old. Transfer box is recon (20k old). R380 is 40k old (from new).

I was thinking these last 3 components would hold! But reading Will's post I'm less sure... :o

Seems like there's a good argument for driving the TGV with a gentle right foot...

In terms of use: long motorway miles towing medium weights and then deep Saharan touring - think: soft sand, rocky tracks and extremely isolated locations.

Reliability is crucial, so I want to get this right, (but without breaking the bank). It sounds like a set of new stock shafts and members might be adequate for the Salisbury - although the Dana conversion would be nice!

Any other areas of drive chain concern? other things to think about or check?

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If you want reliability, you'll want oil lubed hubs for where your going, (spline wear with greased bearings/hubs is artrocious) and the stock drive flanges just don't cut the mustard. (they are quite soft) Come to that, I know heaps of 110's/130's here that have broken the OE Sals shafts as well.

I'd still consider Maxi or Jack Mc.

Jack Mc can also make the axles any spline/diameter with new side gears to really beef up that area, with the stub axle being the only limiting factor here..

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OK, I didn't have much time yesterday when I replied so I'll go into more detail now. Unless you're going to uprate the front diff centre I wouldn't even entertain fitting uprated shafts or CVs as the last thing you want to do is blow up a diff in the middle of nowhere as they bloody heavy to carry as spares and are a PITA to replace (lots of practice and me and codriver can change one in about 2.5 hours with air tools). Really, you should be fine on standard internals on 265/75s as long as you're not really silly. However, if you do want to do anything to the front axle, the first thing I'd do is get hold of a 4 pin centre for the diff. That give you a much, much stronger setup leaving the shafts and CVs as a weak link. Normally you'll find the shaft'll go first if the CVs are in good condition and propperly lubricated. This is good as you can still drive on a broken shaft meaning you don't have to strip it down immediatly in the field.

However, running oiled bearings is a very good mod to do. Its pretty easy, just leave out the seal inside the stubaxle and bob's your uncle. Don't forget to grease the bearings propperly when you install them, though. To run this setup, though, you do want to run Ashcroft shafts as they're sealed.

Now, onto gearboxes. My R380 was like new when the 2.8 went in and the torque destroyed it! Everything was shot, including the clutch (which is already uprated over the 300tdi. There's just so much usable torque from tickover. This is what seems to kill drivetrain components. A friend has recently killed an overdrive and an R380 in 6 and 9 months respectivly. Both were good and the vehicle is a daily driver that only does a little greenlaning. Seriously, if you're going to put big miles on the gearbox, speak to Ashcrofts about getting an R380 with uprated internals and a cooler. Oh, and make sure you get the 250mm clutch conversion from M&D; well well worth it! They didn't tell me about it when I got my engine which I was not so happy about...

The LT230 should be fine. I've blown up one uprated centre diff but I was trying hard and I think the gears may not have been in the best health.

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OK, I didn't have much time yesterday when I replied so I'll go into more detail now. Unless you're going to uprate the front diff centre I wouldn't even entertain fitting uprated shafts or CVs as the last thing you want to do is blow up a diff in the middle of nowhere as they bloody heavy to carry as spares and are a PITA to replace (lots of practice and me and codriver can change one in about 2.5 hours with air tools). Really, you should be fine on standard internals on 265/75s as long as you're not really silly. However, if you do want to do anything to the front axle, the first thing I'd do is get hold of a 4 pin centre for the diff. That give you a much, much stronger setup leaving the shafts and CVs as a weak link. Normally you'll find the shaft'll go first if the CVs are in good condition and propperly lubricated. This is good as you can still drive on a broken shaft meaning you don't have to strip it down immediatly in the field.

However, running oiled bearings is a very good mod to do. Its pretty easy, just leave out the seal inside the stubaxle and bob's your uncle. Don't forget to grease the bearings propperly when you install them, though. To run this setup, though, you do want to run Ashcroft shafts as they're sealed.

Now, onto gearboxes. My R380 was like new when the 2.8 went in and the torque destroyed it! Everything was shot, including the clutch (which is already uprated over the 300tdi. There's just so much usable torque from tickover. This is what seems to kill drivetrain components. A friend has recently killed an overdrive and an R380 in 6 and 9 months respectivly. Both were good and the vehicle is a daily driver that only does a little greenlaning. Seriously, if you're going to put big miles on the gearbox, speak to Ashcrofts about getting an R380 with uprated internals and a cooler. Oh, and make sure you get the 250mm clutch conversion from M&D; well well worth it! They didn't tell me about it when I got my engine which I was not so happy about...

The LT230 should be fine. I've blown up one uprated centre diff but I was trying hard and I think the gears may not have been in the best health.

Will,

I am about to go down a similar route with my 110 which as you will recall is fitted with a 2.8tgv with the HD (130) clutch.

1998 110 with 17500 miles (5500 miles on TGV), I assume it has the standard rover front axle.

The main use is normal roads, some light towing (no more than 1.75 tons) and some overseas trips, say to France possibly Crossier? Blanche, greenlanes in the Central Massif and some desert trips in the company of others. Possibly as a second support venicle to the Lagoda in Russia.

The current upgrade plan for the front axle is ARB, Ashcroft HD CV's, half shafts and flanges.

In your opinion is this enough or do I need to consider a 4 pin and diff pegging as well. Dave at Ashcroft thought that pegging was on balance not essential for a vehicle not doing regular challenges.

For the rear I will fit an ARB, along with some Ashcroft HD Salisbury half shafts and flanges when they become available in December.

I would appreciate your input before I make a final decision.

Thanks

John

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Just running 265/75 bfg's no tractor wheels!

I'm looking at a set of HD CV's, halfshafts and drive members from Ashcroft for the front. I'm guessing these will hold up well.

The front diff is standard Rover, but only a few hundred miles old. Transfer box is recon (20k old). R380 is 40k old (from new).

I was thinking these last 3 components would hold! But reading Will's post I'm less sure... :o

Seems like there's a good argument for driving the TGV with a gentle right foot...

In terms of use: long motorway miles towing medium weights and then deep Saharan touring - think: soft sand, rocky tracks and extremely isolated locations.

Reliability is crucial, so I want to get this right, (but without breaking the bank). It sounds like a set of new stock shafts and members might be adequate for the Salisbury - although the Dana conversion would be nice!

Any other areas of drive chain concern? other things to think about or check?

Bobcat

As we are both likely to buy similar items from Ashcroft might we team up for some discount?

PM me if you think this is a runner.

John

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Will, many thanks for this.

See your point on the front internals, although I'm still tempted to go with the new CV's/Half shafts at the front, partly because the existing ones have had a hard life, but also because a broken CV will leave me with an undrivable vehicle, whereas a broken diff will mean I can pull out the shafts and creep out in 2WD. (Someone please tell me if this is bad logic!).

Also, I'm loathe to replace a brand new diff without at least getting a trip out of it !

Had a chat with MD Eng. about their 242mm HD clutch (they're no longer doing the 250mm) , but at £370 for the kit it's a little painful on the wallet. A 130 clutch is under £100 – do you think the difference is worth it?

Your experience with the R380 is worrying me. Mine is an Ashcroft, with I seem to remember, "bigger bearings", what that means in practice I'm not sure. Would it be worth adding a cooler?

Rick -- Uprated back axle shafts are on the wishlist for next time, the Maxi drives look good, in the meantime I'll have to grab some new OE's to hit my deadlines.

Oiled bearings - sounds like a good option, is it really as simple as leaving out the seal? Anything else to consider?

Diesel Jim - does it come with chassi, engine, stereo etc.?

John - will PM

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...

Oiled bearings - sounds like a good option, is it really as simple as leaving out the seal? Anything else to consider?...

Leave out the seal on the half shaft so that oil from the diff can lubricate the wheel hubs.

But you should replace the seals in the hubs, with a double lip oils seal Corteco P/N 15510067 or Rover P/N RTC3511 (not sure about the Sals rear). The seals used by Rover when they changed to grease lubrication are poor and will not seal oil in or water out.

Your wheel bearings, splines and cv's will love you for changing from grease to oil lubrication and double lip seal.

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If you want reliability, you'll want oil lubed hubs for where your going, (spline wear with greased bearings/hubs is artrocious) and the stock drive flanges just don't cut the mustard. (they are quite soft) Come to that, I know heaps of 110's/130's here that have broken the OE Sals shafts as well.

I'd still consider Maxi or Jack Mc.

Jack Mc can also make the axles any spline/diameter with new side gears to really beef up that area, with the stub axle being the only limiting factor here..

Jack Mc also makes heavy duty stub axles.

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Leave out the seal on the half shaft so that oil from the diff can lubricate the wheel hubs.

But you should replace the seals in the hubs, with a double lip oils seal Corteco P/N 15510067 or Rover P/N RTC3511 (not sure about the Sals rear). The seals used by Rover when they changed to grease lubrication are poor and will not seal oil in or water out.

Your wheel bearings, splines and cv's will love you for changing from grease to oil lubrication and double lip seal.

yep, the RTC3511 seal is the one to use on the Rover or Sals axles (same hubs), seated 4mm below the hub face.

Funny how the dreaded spline wear only raised it's ugly head with the introduction of greased bearing hubs. Some friends became standed in the the Simpson Desert thanks to rear drive flange failure.....

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Will,

I am about to go down a similar route with my 110 which as you will recall is fitted with a 2.8tgv with the HD (130) clutch.

1998 110 with 17500 miles (5500 miles on TGV), I assume it has the standard rover front axle.

The main use is normal roads, some light towing (no more than 1.75 tons) and some overseas trips, say to France possibly Crossier? Blanche, greenlanes in the Central Massif and some desert trips in the company of others. Possibly as a second support venicle to the Lagoda in Russia.

The current upgrade plan for the front axle is ARB, Ashcroft HD CV's, half shafts and flanges.

In your opinion is this enough or do I need to consider a 4 pin and diff pegging as well. Dave at Ashcroft thought that pegging was on balance not essential for a vehicle not doing regular challenges.

For the rear I will fit an ARB, along with some Ashcroft HD Salisbury half shafts and flanges when they become available in December.

I would appreciate your input before I make a final decision.

Thanks

John

John, as Bushy said, ARBs are 4 pin so no problems there. IMHO, you should be fine without pegging as most R&P failiers seem to occur due to poor lubrication, excess wear on either the gears or in the pinion bearings or poor diff assembly. IMHO you shouldn't have issues on the axle front with that setup.

On the gearbox front, just keep the oil changes regular and keep an eye on it. You may well get a couple of years of good service from it. Mine never actually died it just got VERY noisey, sloppy, grindy and difficult to change gear with. I was, franky, astonished how long it lasted when it was, quite clearly, sha88ed!

Bobcat, this will open a can of worms I'm sure but I have never seen a propperly maintained CV in good condition break on a vehicle with standard shafts and an open diff - the shaft will always go first allowing you to creap home. I believe the same will be true for Ashcrofts CVs. I don't believe anyone will break the bell or star on these, all the off the shelf halfshafts will go first. Unless you get an uprated diff centre I really think it would be a good purchase to get uprated shafts or CVs. Surely, if the diffs new you could sell it and buy a 4 pin diff? IMHO it would be money well spent. On the R380, yes, Ashcrofts do a good build but you seem to sail very close to the wind using 2.8s infront of them. I'm not sure whether a cooler can be added to a non cooler box; you'd have to ask Ashcrofts. However, if you're going to tow heavily or use the vehicle in a high ambient temperature its a good idea to have a gearbox with a cooler.

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Thanks once more Will.

Good to hear that the gearbox gave plenty of warning before it expired! RE: front diff – I guess I'll just have to check with the bank.

RE: the gearbox temperature, I'm tempted to remove my (solid) steering guard, as I suspect this impedes the cooling. Otherwise it's a case of taking things easy, until I can afford that £5,999 box.

John, as Bushy said, ARBs are 4 pin so no problems there. IMHO, you should be fine without pegging as most R&P failiers seem to occur due to poor lubrication, excess wear on either the gears or in the pinion bearings or poor diff assembly. IMHO you shouldn't have issues on the axle front with that setup.

On the gearbox front, just keep the oil changes regular and keep an eye on it. You may well get a couple of years of good service from it. Mine never actually died it just got VERY noisey, sloppy, grindy and difficult to change gear with. I was, franky, astonished how long it lasted when it was, quite clearly, sha88ed!

Bobcat, this will open a can of worms I'm sure but I have never seen a propperly maintained CV in good condition break on a vehicle with standard shafts and an open diff - the shaft will always go first allowing you to creap home. I believe the same will be true for Ashcrofts CVs. I don't believe anyone will break the bell or star on these, all the off the shelf halfshafts will go first. Unless you get an uprated diff centre I really think it would be a good purchase to get uprated shafts or CVs. Surely, if the diffs new you could sell it and buy a 4 pin diff? IMHO it would be money well spent. On the R380, yes, Ashcrofts do a good build but you seem to sail very close to the wind using 2.8s infront of them. I'm not sure whether a cooler can be added to a non cooler box; you'd have to ask Ashcrofts. However, if you're going to tow heavily or use the vehicle in a high ambient temperature its a good idea to have a gearbox with a cooler.

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Thanks once more Will.

Good to hear that the gearbox gave plenty of warning before it expired! RE: front diff – I guess I'll just have to check with the bank.

RE: the gearbox temperature, I'm tempted to remove my (solid) steering guard, as I suspect this impedes the cooling. Otherwise it's a case of taking things easy, until I can afford that £5,999 box.

£6k on a gearbox is a lot of money. £1k will give you a TVR spec buildup on an R380 which should cope with most 'normal' engines.

Yeah, removing the steering gaurd'll help although poping some holes in it would also be effective.....

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My 130 has Salisbury axles fitted with Quaife diffs and shafts. The next problem is to get the stronger flanges that fit the Quafe shafts.

I bought a set of Ashcrofts flanges...but the splines are slightly different meaning that I couldn't fit them.

S.

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