Jump to content

R380 oil cooler adapter & early/200tdi seatbox issues


Recommended Posts

Hello all,

After getting my axles all sorted (thanks again) I am finally getting round to fitting the floors back in and driving off. However...

I have an R380 with the stumpy bell housing mated to a genuine def 200tdi in my '89 110. I have fitted a g/box oil cooler and everything at the front end is done, cooler is mounted, front panel re-fitted, and pipes routed back to the cab awaiting cutting and fitting to the gearbox oil cooler adapter.

This morning I removed the bypass block thing that was there (took ages due to a rounded bolt head...) and then tried to fit the cooler adapter (pretty sure its FTC2687) - no chance!

I knew it would be tight and that it might not fit - I went to great lengths to get the genuine adapter (very very expensive new and very very rare secondhand) as it appeared a lot slimmer than the Ashcroft unit, but it still fouls the seatbox quite badly...

So I am going to have to cut the seatbox, swapping a 300tdi box in there is out of the question really as I have already done a huge amount of work with the battery boxes on both sides to house my extra batteries, compressor and a few other bits.

My question is, after a lot of googling and searching, I have not come across much information on this issue - but gather a few people are running this set up. For those that are, any ideas on how to re-fab the box, floor and transmission tunnel? any pictures or ideas on how to go about it would be greatly appreciated - it looks like quite a lot of work to get a decent, good looking, result.

Thanks again,

Jack.

I'll go out and get some pictures in a minute.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here are the photos,

1st pic is of the seat box and g/box. Arrow shows the boss/face that the cooler adapter attaches to - note it sticks out quite far out off the casing (I couldn't even get it all in the picture).

post-61992-0-46214100-1387651124_thumb.jpg

2nd pic of the cooler adapter sticking through. However this is a deceptive picture as it appears as if the adapter almost fits. However the adapter is not sitting on the boss in this image - it is impossible to get the adapter to sit on the boss and clear the seat box at all. In this photo the adapter is also much higher than it would sit if it were mounted correctly.

post-61992-0-62929000-1387651545_thumb.jpg

3rd pic

A very rough marking of what needs to go on the seatbox. Then I have the tunnel to chop up afterwards I s'pose...

post-61992-0-68608100-1387651641_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure thats entirely correct..............the 300 tdi and td5 tunnel is much wider than the 200tdi one (which is the same as the earlier 2.5 petrol/na/td) to accomodate this, and of course the front of the seatbox is different too, but I am sure you already know that.

Could you not either alter the front of your existing seatbox to take the later tunnel, or maybe unrivet your modified battery box and rivet it to a 300/td5 seatbox ?

Would rather do that than take a hammer to it personally

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep the 300/td5 tunnel is indeed wider.

I could possibly alter the front of the seatbox to take the later tunnel - but not sure how that would marry up to the bulkhead, which is also respectively different on the different vehicles (at least I think).

Ideally I would indeed swap the entire seatbox for a later type. I didn't think a simple oil cooler would cause such a problem - mounting the cooler at the front was a right pain when I did that a few months ago!! Otherwise I would have planned to do that before I did the battery boxes as wiring.

Realistically I won't be able to swap the boxes now - even if I did, I think I'd still have a problem at the bulkhead end...
The battery boxes are rather complex and include a significant amount of wiring and sealing that took me ages to do - I just don't have the time to re-do all that now! Although i don't like the idea of cutting the seatbox either.

aux battery box pics to show why I am reluctant to swap seatbox now... The other side is equally as complex but mostly with pneumatic stuff.

post-61992-0-55695700-1387660186_thumb.jpg

post-61992-0-81080600-1387660217_thumb.jpg

post-61992-0-39316500-1387660228_thumb.jpg

So i'll have a look at fitting later tunnel (anybody know if bulkhead is different?) or resign myself to some chopping. I'd probably chop a chunk out of the box and tunnel then fab up a bit of ally to go over the hole and rivnut that on. I do have a wright off-road floor mat to cover up that awful paint - but that would also need trimming to fit the new bit. It's just a pretty akward place too cut really - so much for what I had planned as an hours job!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

reckon it'll be a seatbxx/tunnel mod then, the R380 in 300tdi/Td5 vehicles doesn't have a space issue because the box is further back due to the longer bellhousing.

ummm I think you will find the gearbox and T/case in a 200Tdi is in a VERY similar postion to the 300Tdi….rather a large difference in engine location for and aft between the 2 though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An hours job ? Yeh right.

ummm I think you will find the gearbox and T/case in a 200Tdi is in a VERY similar postion to the 300Tdi….rather a large difference in engine location for and aft between the 2 though.

I am pretty sure that the transfer box is in the SAME position. The gearbox might seem further forward by virtue of the longer 5th gear housing used on the R380, but thats the only difference I think.

The bulkhead is more or less the same but there is an adaptor plate (I think they call it a diaphragm ?) which you can swap over with the 300 type. Its just a matter of unscrewing it (another 5 minute job). Also the floor plates are a different shape, but if I remember correctly, you can cut your existing ones to suit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

no no, I expected simply fitting the adapter and securing the pipes to take an hour, before I realised the seatbox/tunneel etc had to be chopped up. It'll probably take a bloody week now!!

By my makings the g/box & t/case sit approx 4cm further forward on a 300tdi as opposed to a 2000tdi. It all gets a bit confusing (to me anyways), but the 300tdi engine sits much further forward due to the longer bell housing. I found all this out during my axle swap and finding a suitable prop.

Thanks for the info regarding the floor plates and bulkhead. just to clarify, does the 300tdi tunnel come in two parts then? I thought post 200 the tunnel was one unit that affixed to the bulkhead whereas mine are two bits... I'll look into this some more, seems like it could very well be a better route than chopping mine to bits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ummm I think you will find the gearbox and T/case in a 200Tdi is in a VERY similar postion to the 300Tdi….rather a large difference in engine location for and aft between the 2 though.

my error, of course the engine sits further forward, probably a difference in the seatbox shape then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks all once again.

I have decided to chop my existing seatbox and not try and adapt it to fit a later tunnel. Reason being I will have to adapt both sides of the seatbox and the floors to get the later tunnel to fit. I will also have to source and wait for a new tunnel to arrive (with Christmas delay etc). Also my matting won't fit well over the different seat box, nor will my MUD tray that sits on top of that. I'm also in a rush now to get this back on the road as I plan to be driving out of the country soon!
If I chop my existing set up I only really have one corner to deal with and I'm sure I can make a half decent ally cover for the hole I make. This means only one bit of trimming for my matting and everything else remains the same. It's also the cheaper option - I've spent far too much on this car already!!

But thanks for all your help - I did have a good look at the earlier tunnel idea this morning, but it's still not plug and play (as you say the s/box need a bit of modding). The only 'proper' way to do it is to replace the whole lot and as much as I like doing things as 'properly' as possible I don't think thats worth it for what will be a small bulge in that lower corner! I'm surprised nobody else has had to do this though! Perhaps they thought ahead :)

Thanks again - I'll post some pics when it's all done, though that will be a while probably. I'm going to cut it now and fit the cooler now then I'll have to wait until I'm ready to fit all the floor back in before I make the cover, so sometime in the early new year I reckon!

Jack.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could do! Just a bit overkill for an extra inch in the corner. What have yo got under there then??

Managed to fit the cooler and pipes this afternoon - wasn't as bad as i thought :) Still need to decide exactly how to get it all to fit properly but as you can see from the pics it isn't too bad.

Here is the cooler and pipes fitted:

post-61992-0-60065100-1387748547_thumb.jpg

the cut out a bit better:

post-61992-0-42692500-1387748598_thumb.jpg

the floor needs to be cut a little as can be seen here:

post-61992-0-32515400-1387748629_thumb.jpg

and with the tunnel in place you can hardly notice it! All I will probably do is bring the fixings on the floor outwards a bit and space the tunnel so it fits at a slight angle as opposed to vertical. Doubt I'll need to make a cover plate or anything :) But won't be doing that for a couple of weeks as need to lay a couple more cables before I get all the floor back in :)

post-61992-0-99474300-1387748790_thumb.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When you have completed this job, I'll link this thread to our Technical Archive for reference, as I suspect others would find it useful.

IIRC the standard pipes are rigid & just come forward from the adaptor block, at least you don't have to worry about them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

no problem Western, my first tech archive : )
If you do that I could add some more info such as part numbers, thread sizes and how I did the cooler at the front?

Yes the standard pipes are rigid - come forwards then under the box before going forward roughly along the LHS of the engine block. They do become flexible for a portion IIRC and I also think there are multiple options depending on what cooler was/is used.

I chose to make my own up as I reckon it's simpler and cheaper and allows me to route the pipes where I want.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks,

Yep I'm aware the box moves in relation to the body and, hopefully, I've left enough space for that. Pic 3 is the floor pan slotted in place uncut showing the need for it to be cut - haven't got round to that yet...

I was also wondering if this will cause problems when changing gearbox mounts as I usually jack the box up to drop em so I also wonder if this will restrict that.

This may be a better photos of the clearance I gave it :

post-61992-0-20928600-1387761140_thumb.jpg

but it's still not a good photo. In reality there is more space around it than shown in the photo - ideally I'd give it loads of room but it's obvious why I can't!

I'll measure the point of min clearance tomorrow and see what you think as I'd rather not do it twice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

So i'll have a look at fitting later tunnel (anybody know if bulkhead is different?) or resign myself to some chopping. I'd probably chop a chunk out of the box and tunnel then fab up a bit of ally to go over the hole and rivnut that on.

.

That sounds like your best bet.

OOPS - I see you've already done that... Helps to read all of the thread before replying...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did you finish this off?

I have exactly the same issue as I have put a R380 in using the standard 200tdi mounting positions (BMW engine) and I am using the same adapter block and fittings as you.

What BMW have you fitted ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We use cookies to ensure you get the best experience. By using our website you agree to our Cookie Policy