o_teunico Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 Our old 88 used a combo of SWB/LWB secondhand parabolics + polibushes + 1Ton shackles. Total lift was 3" and standard shocks were the limiting factor. Not bad, but I allways thought that SOA could be the next level in performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 One other issue with spring over axle is that unless you correctly rotate the diff pinions up, the propshafts become vulnerable to damage when clambering up and over logs, steep hummocks etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Surely you can go soft top with fold back hood sticks like a pram, then you can drop the hood, fold the screen and duck under the bridge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 unless you correctly rotate the diff pinions up, the propshafts become vulnerable to damage when clambering up and over logs That could be easily made with a two-piece prop, and it will also solve the crossmember issue, but it will need a looooong slip joint. This picture is from one of the Nissan trucks we have at work (This is the 5 Ton one). That soft top idea is really cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 A two piece rear propshaft on a 109 is do-able. But you would struggle with a two piece front propshaft that would allow good articulation unless you mounted the centre bearing on a crossmember even lower than the original arched member. From an engineering viewpoint this whole concept is far from being one of your better ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Bill, you are just far too kind/polite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Bill, you are just far too kind/polite Allow me to redress the balance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Oh dear! where shall i start............ Well nothing new to what others have said on the lift idea. In regards to the x member, i chopped mine off, and made a another straight one just behind the belhousing, like a coiler one. I also chopped the one behind the box (the one with the hole) off, and it was replaced by one that sits on top of the chassis and supports the rollcage. As to lift, mine used to run re arched springs, for a gain of about 3 inches. Ride was still a bit choppy (shackle angle was all messed up) although i had less leafs in each pack. So be careful what you do. There is a real limit on what you can do without making it undrivable, or actually making it perform worse that a standard landy. This how mine sits today (springs have settled down to a standard arc) This was my inspiration below when i was doing my rebuild, but i never ended up going all the way since it is my daily driver! Wish i could build it like this someday. Good luck with your vapour ideas, but try to be realistic in your goals, besides also being practical (and legal) Grem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Oh yes! What a beautifull beast that green 109! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Remember that flat springs give the best ride, spring progressiveness and articulation, and the least bump steer, not cambered, so if you do go SOA, use it as an opportunity to achieve flat springs rather than a lift. Look at the 101 by way of example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 I allready knew that, and one of the advantages os SOA, I think, is that I will not be worried about sagging springs. With a 8" lift, loosing 2" will not be a problem. Series I with nearly flat spings (from a rear axle IIRC) http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=20494 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 If your springs are so knackered that they sag, the chances are that it's not just ground clearance issues that you'll be having - their spring rates will be shot too. And springs rarely sag evenly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 SOA and 400HP in a 107"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Bigger is rarely better, even if a whole gong-ho country's way of life is based on that concept. Way to ruin a rare vehicle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmeanie Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Bigger is rarely better, even if a whole gong-ho country's way of life is based on that concept. Way to ruin a rare vehicle... I'm sure there is someone out there thinking that modifications ruin every old LR. Each to their own unless you have the money and time to save them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 SOA and 400HP in a 107"! Yeah, but not without a lot of other compromises and either a lot of work (if done nicely) or a lot of horrible bodges if not. Take it from me, driving a tall truck is not without issues - side-slopes are much worse (even if the CoG is not too bad, they feel awful), it rolls more on cornering, and low trees etc. can stop you where others pass under. And my truck is not that tall - the roof height is ~2.2m, about the same as Defender with a roof rack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 O_teunico mate. Here's what I would do if I was in your shoes.. First of get the lovely 109" on the road, ie. taxed and licensed. Then I would either refurb the old springs or fit stock replacement springs (not para's) along with 1-ton shackles. (Not para's because of wrap control, easiest done by using stock springs, and cheapest) This would then allow you to run tyres in the 35" park. And with a bit of trimming even wide 35" tyres (check out my 88" build with 35" x 13,5" Krawlers and V8) This would enhance the offroad ability more than any other single upgrade you could ever dream off. Then lastly I'd install a detroit locker in the rear Sal's. Later on an engine with more power could be added allowing you to conquer some of the longer climbs. All this can be done with a VERY strict budget and over a long period of time. I know of several people who gets so set on building the absolutely best thing ever that the build drags on for years upon years. And while I do fully understand that they wan't the best thing they can get, we mustn't forget that the number one priority regarding our precious pieces of British steel, is using them for what they were intended and to be social and spend a good day with all the other nutters that are equally hopelessly in love with these things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Take it from me, driving a tall truck is not without issues - ..., and low trees etc. can stop you where others pass under. And my truck is not that tall - the roof height is ~2.2m, about the same as Defender with a roof rack. My 109 rides at the same height as a 110 with HD springs. Even without the roof rack, it'd make getting into many carparks with anti-traveller height restriction barriers or multi-storey car parks impossible. This is a problem on a car used on-road, and was a real disappointment when I tried to visit St Malo - all their car parks have the barriers to stop campers, and as a result I couldn't park anywhere in the town. After driving around it for a short while, we ran out of patience for the ridiculous lack of consideration the town has for visitors and spent the day (and money) in Dinard instead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MECCANO Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Just to add, 101 flat spring suffer horrifically with wrap if abused, a lot of them came out the army with them s-shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Even without the roof rack, it'd make getting into many carparks with anti-traveller height restriction barriers or multi-storey car parks impossible. If you try hard enough you can park anywhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Yeah, but not without a lot of other compromises and either a lot of work (if done nicely) or a lot of horrible bodges if not. Have you investigated ways of lowering the suspension, sectioning the roof lid etc ? The rear suspension is relatively easy to do because original bumpstop clearance is quite generous. Front end was a bit more involved, requiring raising engine/trans, bulkhead modification for bellhousing clearance etc. relocating bumpstops etc to keep truck relatively low but still have reasonable suspension up travel. I would still like to have the freedom to reconstruct the front of the chassis to provide more uptravel but that would be overstepping the line re legality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I'm happy with the height - it's good for tracks and trails without being too tall to have stability issues. The top of my rack is probably not much higher than Fridge's roof panel. It's only a nuisance parking in towns, and I'm slowly rebuilding (well, stripping at the moment) my RRC to be my regular car, which will allow my 109 to be de-compromised and turned into the exped vehicle I want it to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I've been researching and getting information about SOA the right way for more than one year, as such a conversion is in my book; the more I knew the more I realized it'll be a long way if I want to do it properly. The green and red beasts previously posted have been tuned to perfection (if perfection exists in a world of modified vehicles), and most things are hidden and you can't see them. Bill spoke very wisely in a couple of his posts, as usual and I'd follow Soren's suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Here's what I would do if I was in your shoes.. First of get the lovely 109" on the road, ie. taxed and licensed. That´s exactly my idea. Then I will see what my budget/legal rulings will permit. run tyres in the 35" park. And with a bit of trimming even wide 35" tyres Unfortunatelly even on narrow 7.50s the turning circle is quite big, so no wide tyres or anything beyond 32". Have you investigated ways of lowering the suspension Axle winching, but with just 2" of clearance between axle casing and bumpstop, that will not be enough. I assume that with the 109 there will be banned areas for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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