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ECU location and MS install in RRC


Cheesy

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You may well be right, I hadnt done the maths on that and just went with what was specified in all of the documentation.

Well Im out of argon so I did some more reading on this and Im really not sure why this resistor should be anymore than 10W.... It appears that the idea of using a resistor on the third wire to create a 'spring' to bounce off is a bit of a bodge anyway. The correct (or maybe just better) way to do it is to use a second TIP120 that has an inverted signal to drive the second coil in the idle valve. Further to this it seems that some of the valves dont work the best with the PW frequencies that MS uses so some people use a frequency shift circuit.

Now there must be some pros and cons for the 2 and 3 wire valves

2 wire - Simple to wire

Can only increase air bypass

Are closed when powered off

May be noisy if used near the ends of its range

3 wire - Require additional circuitry

Can increase and decrease air bypass

Are in a mid position when powered off (I think my one is)

Are possibly easier to control accurately (just guessing this one)

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I think the 3-wire ones give the ability to have a sort of "self-centering" action when unpowered, maybe this gives a wider control range or an easier control method but TBH as long as the valve flows enough air I don't think it matters. In fact for off-road trickling along at idle a significantly oversized valve may be preferable.

Edited to add: It's the way of all things that a "quick bodge" back-of-fag-packet circuit posted by one person who understands electronics is then propagated across the net as "the right answer" by everyone else without further thought.

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Well I almost have the 2 wire one sorted, I could have stayed with the 3 wire but I would have had to pull the MS and build the extra bit of circuit...

The filter is very temporary, I have got a Disco diesel one to go in there but need to sort the mountings first. I have also found that at least with this 2 wire idle valve the opening when powered off can be adjusted, there is a small brass hex set screw under some sort of potting compound.

There is one annoying issue, the OD of the throttle body is not a very common size, I cut a 20mm ring off the 76mm tube I used for the inlet duct an cut a split in it so it can be a packer under the silicone joiner.

Because I am a cheap arse the inlet duct is made from a 76mm 90 deg mandrel exhaust bend cut through the middle of the bend to give me 2 45s and the elbows for the idle valve were cut out of my daughters old bassinet... pays to keep useful bits of steel.

P1020406_zps5a9f2567.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

And now the idle valve works, it does have a few implications on the start up settings that still need to be sorted though. I had a bit of a false start though, the first time I tried to turn on the valve it didnt work, well it probably did but wasnt set up close to right.

After reading the MSextra forums the process went a bit like this;

Pull valve off so you can see the drum (rotating bit in it)

I set the frequency to 100Hz as I read that this worked ok for the valve I have

Use the test output mode to find the PWM% for the valve to be closed ( note this is not 0 as the valve has to rotate from the un-powered condition which is not closed), at yhe frequency I selected this was 35%

Then the same thing for fully open, this was 70%

For the rest of the closed loop settings I left them as they were except the TPS threshold which I dropped down to 5%, the idle valve tried to fight the throttle when it was at 10%

The implication of all this is that I need to alter all my warm up settings because the warm up idle which is now working changes the bins it is reading from in the VE table, it also looks like with the faster idle I can drop back the warm up fuel which is a good thing as before it didnt drive very well while still under warm up enrichment (way too rich), it seems that wue is applied over the rev range instead of just at idle/low revs. So a faster idle and less wue should fix this to a degree, that said it is probably not the ideal car for the 4 min drive to Kindy on those late mornings...

Now the implications of this is that the

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Cant be too much help on the ms2 msq but....I can email you a decent 4.6 msq for ms1....and a link for the software to view it.....

You could then go through my ms1 and compare all the settings...esp the basic ones and this may help you ultimately end up with a better ms2 msq ?? ....

Pm me if I can help

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  • 4 months later...

I managed to find out a bit more about my engine yesterday, it is quite a clever conversion although it would have been pretty expensive at the time!

It has a custom made crank with the 88.9mm stroke, standard Rover main bearings... so no machining to the block, standard rods and standard rings in custom pistons. The pistons have a larger dish and a shorter compression height.,

Anyone know of a 94mm piston with an 18mm shorter compression height? apparently these things really haul arse when built as a 5.2!!

The big advantage of what I have is that it isnt a P76 crank which by the sound of things arent that strong and require the block to be machined. What I have bar the pistons obviously will drop straight into a 3.9 block.. Not that it is likely I will do that any time soon

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I managed to find out a bit more about my engine yesterday, it is quite a clever conversion although it would have been pretty expensive at the time!

It has a custom made crank with the 88.9mm stroke, standard Rover main bearings... so no machining to the block, standard rods and standard rings in custom pistons. The pistons have a larger dish and a shorter compression height.,

Anyone know of a 94mm piston with an 18mm shorter compression height? apparently these things really haul arse when built as a 5.2!!

The big advantage of what I have is that it isnt a P76 crank which by the sound of things arent that strong and require the block to be machined. What I have bar the pistons obviously will drop straight into a 3.9 block.. Not that it is likely I will do that any time soon

Too late to edit, that should be about 9mm shorter com height, from what I can gather around 1.525" to 1.550"

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  • 11 months later...

This thing has been parked up for a while to get the trans replaced due to an inverted sprag (could drive it but had to manually select first when ever first was needed... like when you put your foot down in second, it would go into neutral unless first was selected). Anyway this turned into a very drawn out process, first off the trans and transfer case is heavy and I was doing it by myself, lots of ratchet tie downs and some 4x2s. Then I didnt have the right mount for the transfer case (now an LT230 that came with the trans), however it turns out that the Borgwarner mount just needs to be trimmed down a bit and have all four holes re drilled and it looks like it is meant to be there. Then it became obvious that the exhaust was on its last legs so I made up a new system from the 2:1 collector on each bank, 2" from there to a twin inlet muffler box then 3" to a resonator and out the passenger side. The O2 sensor is in the front of the muffler box between the inlet pipes.

Finally today I got around to getting the trans fluid so I could fire it up (while it was apart I also replaced a bluetooth module in the megasquirt that had died), it fired and started surprisingly well considering it had been sitting for so long.... until the oil light came on, I turned it off and started it again and it never went out.... Pulled out the sender and disconnected the coil packs and cranked it over, no mess on the ground. I pulled out what was left of the dizzy and spun the oil pump over with the drill, still nothing (incidentally I had checked the oil before I started any of this and it was on the high mark on the dipstick).

At this stage I was getting a bit annoyed so came in and had lunch and looked on the net, went back out and pulled the pressure relief apart.... that was fine, so in an act of desperation I tipped in another 4l of old oil form the car (its a bit odd being 5-30 synthetic) put the drill back on it and in seconds it was squirting oil all over the power steering box (I hadnt put the sender back in). Plugged the coils in and it fired up straight away, although there was more engine noise than exhaust noise until the lifters all pumped back up, ran it for 10 min then changed the oil to a 20-50 diesel mineral oil that was on special and it is quieter than its ever been.... well the tappets anyway, the exhaust might just be a tiny bit loud.

The next step is wiring in the wide band, I bought a 4.9 Bosch sensor and a 14.7.com spartan 2 controller, mainly because it was cheap and does everything I need it to do. I also replaced the MAP sensor hose (which was new vacuum hose form a local automotive shop) with silicone hose from a race shop. The vacuum hose had already started falling apart and had cracks through it, I dont think it will be a problem with the silicone hose, it is 3mm and I had to drill out the hole on the front of the MS case for it to fit through.

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