ejparrott Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 Brake shoes swapped around this morning, hubs seals changed likewise, brakes re-adjusted and we are officially back on the road! Brakes feel pretty good, might take her down the garage and put her on the rollers just to see. Few interesting noises from the gearboxes need keeping an eye on, for the moment I'm putting it down to a year with no movement and minimal oil content, we'll see how that goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Good to hear EJ , what are your plans for it now? cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 Put a few miles on it to start with! There's a few interesting noises from the gearboxes...for now I'm putting it down to a years standing with minimal oil...put a few miles on and see what happens. I'm planning on doing a fit-out for weekend camping in the back, I'd like to get started on that soon, but first need to change the alpine light rubbers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Had an interesting drive to work this morning...half way here the rear o/s wheel locked up.... Hubs and drums both cold so I don't think it's brakes or wheel bearings...hadn't used the brakes...the only thing I can think of is that it was the handbrake grabbing the prop shaft...will have to drive it carefully home and see if it does it again, and I'll whip the diff over off to make sure all is well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 The problem with the shoes and adjusters is not just having a misplaced shoe not engage on the adjuster and retract too far, giving spongy brakes, but that another shoe must also be misplaced with an over engaged adjuster which won't back off enough. That could explain a wheel locking up. Unless the handbrake came on hard, it wouldn't cause a wheel lock. Having recent new hub seals suggestes that something may have got into a bearing. That could easily cause tansmissio oises and a lock up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Well...that was short lived.... Slowest trip home from work ever that was four..five ...six times...I lost count. Something is very unhappy, got 2/3 of the way home and something started making noises just like it did this morning...backed off and we came to a shuddering halt. Not sure what it is, but its always the rear o/s that locks and I can't decide if it is handbrake or if it's the rear o/s brakeWhen I did the hub seals I dropped the bearings out and gave them all a good clean down, and mopped out the hub. I refitted them and greased them and stuck them straight back on. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying I did the job properly. The hubs and drums were still cold when I got home, handbrake, '230 and '77 too, VB checked them out. I ended up driving back from the village in low second, not wanting to cause untold damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 If it was wheel brake you would have found it as soon as you felt the hubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I can't see a gear box or hand brake issue locking just the one wheel. It has to be something on that end of the axle, and that suggests brakes, half shaft or hub. I wonder if new shoes mixed with old drums may be occasionally picking up on a rusty lip or section of the drum not worn by previous shoes, pulling the leading shoe on hard and binding. It would only need a very small difference in alignment of the friction lining on the shoe, or the curved shoe section on the flat plate section which sits into the piston and pivot. If that is happening, there may be witness marks on the edge of the friction lining where it has been snagged by the unworn surface of the drum - look for bevelling, stepping, grooves or chipping along the edge of the lining material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 I'll have a look...its going to be Saturday before I get to look I would expect. Re the handbrake, when I reversed it on the garden last night it was skipping a bit, it's a symptom of over adjusted hand brake I'm told, but I can't say for sure if it was that or something on the back axle. The problem is I have a custom handbrake linkage to connect the series lever to the 90/110 drum, via a 1:1 crank. I've adjusted the handbrake to be effective at 3 clicks and damn good at 4, which is what I'd expect to need for the MoT. It might be that its holding it just that little bit too close, an that the crank on an early 90/110 isn't 1:1. I still have it so I'll check one night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I adjust the shoes on the brake so they're just clear of the drum (no scraping at all as I turn the drum over by hand with the prop off), and set the vertical rod to the lever such that it needs two clicks to take up the slack between the lever's lug and the nuts on the rod, making sure any movement of the transmission from torque ot bouncing on rough roads won't result in accidental brake input. It means that I have to pull the lever up about 6 notches for full application, and that's with a longitudinal tie to stop excessive forward movement of the entire transmission as the brake is pulled on, making it much more effective. The standard SIII brake works excellently, even with the 3.54 diffs. If you can adjust yours similarly, I think you'd be able to eliminate it as a cause, and if you can fit a tie rod anywhere, you'd have a very effective hand brake too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 I'll look in to that, at the moment the adjuster nuts on the pull rod are tight against the pin as they are with the 88's. I didn't realize you still had the Series handbrake lever as well! I have got a SII tie ro somewhere in the store, was going to fit it to the 88 at one point but never got round to it. I'm sure I can find something to fit it to, or an equivilant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 For all my tinkering, much of the mechanical and structural elements of mine are standard SIII - parabolics, an overdrive, a Tdi and the axles and wheel brakes are about all the mechanical mods I have made, and even those conversions are done almost exclusively using standard parts. Fitting the tie to the 88 will be easy as you have the standard parts and the Series bell housing and cross member the tie connects to. For the 109, you'll have to be creative in finding locations t fix it to and will have to make up some brackets, but the principle is the same. The other option would be to fit a cable and Defender or Disco/RR lever which won't pull the transmission forwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 You're right...I was just trying to keep the Series hand brake lever in place....don't really know why, I'm not that fussed about what The 109 wears, the 88 is kept looking original as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 Forecast doesn't look too bad for tomorrow so hopefully I'll get a chance to look at it. I'm going to back of the handbrake adjuster an introduce free play as per Nick's suggestion from experience with his 109, and then jack up the corner that always locks and let it run - see what happens, with a foot over he clutch obviously! If it still does it then I'll have to look at the hub/drum more closely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Throwing out ideas, here, so if I'm teaching you to suck eggs, (how does one do that, by the way) sorry. If it was a non braking issue (bearing etc) I would have thought something would have broken with the lock up. It's probably a brake issue then. The aftermarket brakes can be of less than perfect fit. One of the solutions is to chamfer/bevel the leading and trailing edge of the shoe. This makes the shoe more forgiving. Stupid stuff: Is the mating surface of the hub, and of the drum perfectly flat? Are the retaining screws seating fully home? Are all the springs tidy, and away from the hub? I once had to limp home with the 109 having a blocked fuel filter, 20 miles of torture. Took 3 hours! You have my sympathies. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Ed, the pull off spring has not gone walkies has it as that could cause the brake to bind even tho the adjustment is such that it does not. Handbrake gaiter holding the lever up slightly that the pull off spring would have overpowered the gaiter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 Yes, in more than one way. I hadn't yet fitted the return spring which I think I already said, purely because of lack of time and its a little job that could be fitted in another day. Driving home on Monday if I wasn't using the left hand to do something else I was holding down the handbrake, just in case it was that. I've just been looking for the return spring and I can't find it...I'll have to order one I think, I need to order some crank seals and injector seals anyway. I did find the old 90 handbrake bracket, and looking at it the (cable) input side of the crank is 3" throw and the output side is 2", so there's more travel on the input than the output side. That makes me think that my 1:1 crank may be part of the problem and with it adjusted up on 3 clicks it's just possible it might be too tight. I'm going to back it off as per Nick's suggestion and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 have you got both nuts on the pull rod above the trunnion ? I've found it works better with one above and one below, locked to the trunnion . With both above the rod and trunnion can act as a ratchet pulling the HB on as the transmission moves relative to the chassis cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 This morning I loosed them off so there's a bit of freeplay there. There's still one each side, but I've added an extra one to lock the top one so it doesn't vibrate up or down the shaft, as per Nick's suggestion. Couple of photo's I forgot to post when I re-did the rear shoes last weekend.... Rear offside... Rear nearside... Nicely cleaned backplates... Nearside... Offside... I know the springs at the bottom are wrong, I spotted it as I was putting the hubs back on. I didn't think about it at the time and just put them back where they had been. They are now changed around so they are on the same holes each side, top already was. I've got 6 maybe 7 clicks on the handbrake now, backed off the adjuster on the drum and also introduced some freedom on the lever. I've got the rear o/s jacked up and run it in high 5th for a good 10 minutes...little bit of vibration I think from out of balance tyres, few odd scrapes now and again...certainly never locked up. Everything is stone cold apart from the transfer case which feels ever so slightly warmer. I know it's not a perfect test, with no weight on the stub axles and hubs, no vibration from potholes, no load, but it's the best I can do for now, or am prepared to do. There's still no oil in the back axle and I don't want collapsed wheel bearings, so I'm off now to see if I can tap out the hole in the galv diff pan for a plug, then I'll swap the covers over and re seal it and then fill it with oil and take it for a road test. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 Ummm...there's every possibility I may have found the problem...and it may be nothing to do with the brakes afterall..... Looks like it's spat a bearing, inner end of the pinion I think.... bugger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Ah! The "Rebuild a Sailsbury" thread beckons! G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 lol I've two choices, Phil's lent me his case spreader so I could pop the diff out of this axle, replace it with the 3.54 110 diff I've got that I was going to put in anyway, so the diff ratio matches the engine and gearbox. The other option is to swap the case for the stage 1 V8 axle I've got which was intended for the other 109. If I was to swap the diff the axle has to come out anyway, the fuel tank's in the way. At the same time I can sort out the spring hangers at the front of the rear springs which are civvy-spec not mil-spec. Using the existing hubs and brakes and the V8 casing seems like the best idea at the moment, I think David and I could do the job in the day, given good weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Do remember that those axles are heavy buggers! Watch you back! G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 For the pinion to chomp the diff center it would be the flange end bearing on the pinion as it would have to move in. I changed my 109's rear axle from a Rover to a Salisbury in a day single handed apart from the brake bleeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 Is that not how they left the factory then Phil? I did look at the 3.54 which doesn't have that 'feature' but it's rather neat and looks deliberate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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