land rover world gone bust?

[CwazyWabbit]

Interesting points Si.

I think the digital adverts that are more likely to result in me putting my hand in my pocket are the ones that are more informative than ram it down your throat.

Advertising via social media can result in me buying stuff, but I'm not on about the ads that are surrounding the content. Specific properly targetted messages in groups that I have joined, especially as it gives me the chance to then ask the seller questions by commenting.

But then maybe I'm just strange......

[Snagger]

I'm afraid I'm similar, although for me I haven't read them for about eight years. I recently gave all of my old copies away. Alongside the poor content, they are all full of ads - and I mean you have to search for the articles in amongst the adverts. Ads for overpriced junk accessories, britpart nonsense everywhere and pages of insurance ads - phone half of the companies that advertise in there and they won't even insure most variants of defender!

As for LRW and LRM, I stopped reading them for two reasons, first the content and second because the English grammar and spelling was so poor! I mean, FFS, at least get a proof reader!

LRO have the forum, there's more info on there than there is in the mag these days. They are stuck really though, there are plenty of great free forums (like here) so they can't charge for forum membership like a mag.

I have to agree with that. LRW was not my cup of tea - I'm not interested in highly modified trials vehicles, but that what the magazine catered for and so it had its niche. A shame for those who enjoy that facet of the marque. It doesn't excuse the woeful spelling and grammar of the articles and the low-brow manner in which the magazine was presented, though. LRe was a little dry, but was very accurate and thorough, and the editor (James Taylor) is a complete gentleman, so I was saddened to see that magazine go down. I can't say I'm keen on the LRO staff - they seem a bit of a mafia and come across as "don't you know who I am" type bullies to me, but impressions can be wrong. A lot of their information is incorrect and their perpetual endorsement of sponsor Britpart undermines any credibility of their tech articles. I prefer LRM, but even that has articles with dire grammar (Frank, I'm looking at you! ), which is unreasonable for professional writers.

[bill van snorkle]

Dire Grammar Snagger? I take it you don't visit American or Australian forums then ? They and we moida the English language.

[Sheffield]

One advantage of paper magazines is that we can read them in the bath. Drop it and that is one magazine gone, but drop your digital tablet version and that whole lot is gone. But I have not purchaesd one for years, for all the reasons given above.

[Part1cle]

Much the same here, last year when I was off work for a long period the Enemy bought me a few copies of LRM which was ok but I soon got bored with it, as I did before with LRW and LRO which I took when I first got interested in the marque. At that time I wasn't aware of forums and the like and have still got boxes of those early mags, including some #1's, like Michele I haven't been able to throw them away but having moved house I guess they will have to go along with all the Cars & Car Conversions etc. I have had even longer!.

Is anyone else a reader of one of the other strong one make automags? I wonder how the Ford and VW enthusiast mags are coping and if they are going the same way.

It seems the way forward is to publish something that can be read over t'internet, I was looking for info on the March 2-4-0 car and came across "Classic & Competition Car" which is a free magazine that you subscribe to by email, a bit like "the Landy" I guess except this seems to be run independently from any sponsors other than the guys photo business that publishes it.

I wonder if the way forward could be the amalgamation of a forum and something like the Landy, if it could be independent? Come on you entrepreneurs!

[mmgemini]

Much Advertised Racing Car Hoax

[megatoad]

Personally I started reading the 4x4 mags when I was a spotty youth, then I one day I was scanning the magazine racks one day and found a dedicated publication, that was LRO issue 2 (missed number 1)

I read it and the 4x4 magazines avidly and built up a wealth of knowledge long before I bought my first LR in 1991.

Problem is then the other magazines started, and as time has gone by as others have pointed out it just becomes rehashed. Same with any other subject, I occasionally scan mags in the newsagents and very rarely buy one.

Indeed the last one I bought was Classic Rand Rover which I read on the train from London to Edinburgh in December.

I used to read of peoples trans-continental trips, now, I find them quite boring.

Knowing a couple of Land Editors, and also having dabbled as an editor for my LR club one year I know how hard it is trying to find any new content to put in.

Now if I want info or help on how to tackle a job I just I just hit a number of forums and usually get a quick response. But again, FORUMS well thats another topic in its own right too.

I love the printed word, but sadly newspapers and magazines I feel have had their time especially on a topic as narrow as a single marque.

[ejparrott]

There's a BIG difference between digital publishing and simply delivering a printed publication in a digital form. Sending out a PDF, for example, of your printed magazine is not making a transition to digital media as a business it's simply delivering printed media in a different format.

As a simple example, can you as a "digital" subscriber go to the LRM web site and pull up every article that mentions or is concerned with a "bobtail Range Rover" in the last 10 years ?

I'm afraid I'm not in a position to answer that. Although aware that LRM do a digital edition I don't subscribe to it. I understand from the information I've read on it that it isn't simply a PDF version of the printed mag, but a magazine-plus if you like, with additional material and stuff. As for searching back 10 years, I don't recall seeing anything about it. Point taken though

[Pollywog]

I haven't read the Land Rover magazines for about 10 years but I do write for magazines on a completely different subject.

My experience from writing for UK based magazines is that many hobbyists here are very eager to write articles and submit them for publication free of charge, and likewise many of the big suppliers now have media personnel that put out articles to the magazines free of charge as a way of advertising their products. This means that the magazines have a constant supply of free articles and as such are reluctant to pay for content from professionals, I don't blame the magazines for taking that stance but inevitably the quality of the content suffers from that fact. Also with the writers not being under contract they are free to send the articles for publication at numerous magazines and so you regularly find the same topics covered over and over again.

I find US magazines have a better way of working; the editorial teams decide what subjects they want to cover and then contact suitably experienced writers. Everything is done under contract and they aren't too keen on having content submitted at random.

Unfortunately magazine sales have plummeted everywhere in the last few years and many titles are struggling, those that aren't struggling themselves still tend to suffer because they have sister publications on different subjects who are suffering.

Personally I welcome LRW being bought out as I think there are just far too many Land Rover magazines in the UK; LRO, LRW, LRE, LRM, CLR as well as the general 4x4 mags, with so many titles there just aren't going to be enough decent articles to go around and the readership is equally diluted. Hopefully they will buy out some of the other titles as well and we can go back to having just a couple of really good publications.

[Michele]

My experience from writing for UK based magazines is that (...) magazines have a constant supply of free articles and as such are reluctant to pay for content from professionals, I don't blame the magazines for taking that stance

I do!

[redneck]

If they are going to go digital then they should use the media to it's full.

Hot rod magazine do a series called Roadkill which is a bit of fun but should give the mags something to think about.

As for advertising, well there is the beauty of modern technology, Adblocker, if I want to buy something I'll do a search for it.

I totally hate ads in any form, t.v, radio, internet I'll do anything I can to avoid them, never listen to commercial radio, record and fast fwd/edit tv programmes etc..

[simonr]

I totally hate ads in any form, t.v, radio, internet I'll do anything I can to avoid them, never listen to commercial radio, record and fast fwd/edit tv programmes etc..

I totally agree - but somehow see mag advertising differently. I guess it's because I have the choice of whether to look at it or not, makes it more benign to me at least.

The trouble with totally avoiding advertising, even in the form of new products pages, means you never see new stuff you didn't know you want! (That's probably a good thing! )

Si

[redneck]

I

The trouble with totally avoiding advertising, even in the form of new products pages, means you never see new stuff you didn't know you want! (That's probably a good thing! )

Si

There in lies the beauty of the internet, you see new products from peoples reviews of them on the forums, the difference is the people reviewing them can be trusted to give an honest opinion of the product, rather than some journo who's afraid of losing their advertising revenue.

There are a lot of forums with well respected regulars who could give personal reviews, the vendors should utilise these forums by lending out their products to these forums rather than spending on magazine adverts. Vendors need to get creative and engage with their customers, the internet is a 2 way media, rather than sticking a picture and few words in a magazine.

Like I said, the Roadkill series is a great example, a couple of guys into hotrods goofing off, but they fit a ton of new parts to the vehicles using tools which they buy, and often fitted at vendors workshops/ car parks. Its all advertising, but its not in your face and they show the real world results of their efforts by drag racing, road tripping and off roading etc.

[CwazyWabbit]

You do also have to be wary of forum reviews of products, more than one company have pretended to be joe blogs public on this forum to push their products. Some get outed but I do wonder how many don't......

[UdderlyOffroad]

There in lies the beauty of the internet, you see new products from peoples reviews of them on the forums, the difference is the people reviewing them can be trusted to give an honest opinion of the product, rather than some journo who's afraid of losing their advertising revenue.

You have to be careful though, IMHO, 'Citizen Journalists' who've been given a freebie to review are even less likely to be objectively critical of a product than a Journo who knows which side their bread is buttered on.

That is of course different from someone who has spent their own hard-earned on a product.

[Nigelw]

You have to be careful though, IMHO, 'Citizen Journalists' who've been given a freebie to review are even less likely to be objectively critical of a product than a Journo who knows which side their bread is buttered on.

That is of course different from someone who has spent their own hard-earned on a product.

That is quite true Matt, I am not ashamed to say that I use the LRO forum to publicise my work and often with the intention of hosting a post in their tech archive, why, at this point it os to get to grips with writing tech posts but also because I would like to become a journo in an independent magazine where it can be said openly in reviews of products and parts whether they are good or not.

Not sure about others but I find it tiresome to read rave reviews about every single product, they can't all be the most awesome must have, how ever did we survive without them products, I seldom if ever actually see constructive criticism over product flaws or poor performance.

[honitonhobbit]

Interesting what you say there. I reckon the very best of LRM was the last year before Richard HT left. Richard Streeton was editor in all but name, Kev Mills was Features Ed. Two died in the wool LR enthusiasts but with good 'other interest' knowledge

Richard would ring me up for a feature - ask me what I had in the pipeline or if I could cover something on a set subject. We would talk two or three times a month. I would search out stuff that appealed to a range of tastes (including mine), find a good shoot site, organise pictures - AVOIDING PHOTOSHOP AT ALL COSTS - and interview the owner/builder. I would then write it up. Check the tech info. Contact the owner/builder for queries and confirmations. Re read. My wife is a proof reader amongst her many talents - 13 years in TV and conferencing, so fast and practical - she would read it through a couple of times. I'd re-read. That's 40+ hours of work on average, for a 6 page piece. £300 quid on the invoice..

I don't do feature pieces for LRM anymore because Richard and Kev have left; and because if I do all that work, I get to send it in to see if it's 'any good'. Ballcocks to that. The Masterclass series is a commissioned series

That RED winches article in LRW's last copy was mine. Richard had ordered it but left before he could publish it. It was dropped. So as I own all rights to my stuff I gave it back to RED (Neale Jones is a good friend and his company do a damned good job {and no I don't have any freebies}). Simon WH the editor of LRW managed to fit it into the last issue because he felt it was a good article. It was written in February 2013. RED have now sold over 160 Hornets world wide with a full order book. If you like the Hornet you should see the Viper.

I used to do product tests for TOR but as few companies would simply send stuff out of the blue, I had to acquire it. I only bothered to contact companies who I knew did good stuff - why test rubbish? So then all the tests were the same at the end. Testing products in magazines is done completely wrong in the UK. The Yanks and the Aussies have got it right. Test it properly and be honest

[simonr]

The article about Red Winches was great! I mailed Neale (who I also consider my friend) - to say as much (he blamed you!) and said it provided some balance to the article a few pages before

I hope you do continue writing for the mags - I like the style of them with a little bit of humour!

Si

[Daan]

Interesting what you say there. I reckon the very best of LRM was the last year before Richard HT left. Richard Streeton was editor in all but name, Kev Mills was Features Ed. Two died in the wool LR enthusiasts but with good 'other interest' knowledge

Richard would ring me up for a feature - ask me what I had in the pipeline or if I could cover something on a set subject. We would talk two or three times a month. I would search out stuff that appealed to a range of tastes (including mine), find a good shoot site, organise pictures - AVOIDING PHOTOSHOP AT ALL COSTS - and interview the owner/builder. I would then write it up. Check the tech info. Contact the owner/builder for queries and confirmations. Re read. My wife is a proof reader amongst her many talents - 13 years in TV and conferencing, so fast and practical - she would read it through a couple of times. I'd re-read. That's 40+ hours of work on average, for a 6 page piece. £300 quid on the invoice..

I don't do feature pieces for LRM anymore because Richard and Kev have left; and because if I do all that work, I get to send it in to see if it's 'any good'. Ballcocks to that. The Masterclass series is a commissioned series

That RED winches article in LRW's last copy was mine. Richard had ordered it but left before he could publish it. It was dropped. So as I own all rights to my stuff I gave it back to RED (Neale Jones is a good friend and his company do a damned good job {and no I don't have any freebies}). Simon WH the editor of LRW managed to fit it into the last issue because he felt it was a good article. It was written in February 2013. RED have now sold over 160 Hornets world wide with a full order book. If you like the Hornet you should see the Viper.

I used to do product tests for TOR but as few companies would simply send stuff out of the blue, I had to acquire it. I only bothered to contact companies who I knew did good stuff - why test rubbish? So then all the tests were the same at the end. Testing products in magazines is done completely wrong in the UK. The Yanks and the Aussies have got it right. Test it properly and be honest

Thanks for sharing that with us, interesting to see some back ground to the mags.

Daan

[landroversforever]

You do also have to be wary of forum reviews of products, more than one company have pretended to be joe blogs public on this forum to push their products. Some get outed but I do wonder how many don't......

They're usually pretty obvious as many people are on several forums and pick up the copy+pasting efforts!

Thanks for sharing that with us, interesting to see some back ground to the mags.

Daan

I agree, interesting to hear from the other side of the page.

I hadn't realised that Kev Mills was no longer writing for LRM, but now seems obvious. I've subscribed to LRM for yonks and still currently do. However my interest in the mags is waining... the number of inaccuracies and the 'Best ever...' or 'Ultimate...' label put on a vehicle which is normally nothing special drive me up the wall! One thing which seems to keep me away from unsubscribing, is the Mike Manifold feature. Always interesting to read, and nice to see it from the garage's side of things.

[Nigelw]

Mike Manifold is my inspiration

[Mo Murphy]

is the Mike Manifold feature. Always interesting to read, and nice to see it from the garage's side of things.

Ditto Ross

I enjoy Lovvers' pensmanship, always written with such bearded gay abandon

Mo

[Dean Smith]

One thing which seems to keep me away from unsubscribing, is the Mike Manifold feature. Always interesting to read, and nice to see it from the garage's side of things.

My own comic reading is decreasing and the only reason i have not unsubscribed is the Mike Manifold section, it is the first thing i read when the mag falls through the door.

Dean

[honitonhobbit]

Simon, I believe that Neale, myself and many others owe Simon WH a very big drink for that superb placement. Writing without humour is pointless - humour is what gets us through every day

Kev Mills left LRM to work for Withams; he now works for himself doing lots of stuff, including a bot for CLR. He is also a Kelsey Editor for Classic Massey & Ferguson Enthusiast Magazine. I hope to be writing a piece for him for next months issue.

Richard Streeton works for JLR press dept - an excellent, decent, all round good chap

I also love Mike Manifold's stuff - if you knew who he really was then you would know that it is all true...

Mo - my gay bearded abandon is what keeps me going!

[jbs]

I've given up buying the mag's as I'm really cynical about all of the BS thrown at you, more or less telling you what to think and buy(Buy this Carlos fandango bit of kit and make such and such richer-nene overland are an example of this)-LRO being the main one, and the fact that one of the mags are using britpart for they're parts and obviously have no idea or are apathetic to the views of the rest of us who know how bad some If not all of it can be,some of us-not me having bought britpart stuff in the past and know it's utter carp, I like reading or did I should say Mike Manifolds ditties and there was the odd good article but to be honest It's history repeating itself again and again and I'm bloody bored by it all, I come on here and really enjoy the forum and It's one of the first places I come to for advice or tech stuff I need for my truck, I've subscribed to the freeby mag that was linked to on here on page one of this thread and I'll see how that goes-If it turns into the same as the others then I'll delete my subscription to it as I won't put up with the same as before

John