Soren Frimodt Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 As we all now the front diff is slightly more offset to the right on a coiler compared to a leafer.. But does anyone have, or have the ability to get, the exact measurement of the difference? I have plenty of leafers around me, but none o' those pescy coilers Thanks Gents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Don't have a leafer handy,but measuring a coiler axle from the swivel housing mounting flange to the bottom differential stud right and left gives a reading of 33cm and 75 cm. By my maths that means the differential is 21cm off centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 If anyone compare my measurements to their own and says I got it wrong. My diffs have been turned upside down because of the portals,so the bottom stub is off set to the other side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I can look tomorrow morning as I have both sets of measurements. Off hand the diff offset sound about right at 20mm as I looked at narrowing a RRC axle and moving the diff by 10mm wich would end up 10mm out from Series. Marc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 Thank you very much Gents, much appreciated. I've just had a measure myself on a leafer, and my plan seems feasible. Basically what I'm thinking of is fitting a coiler front axle to the 80", first and foremost to gain easy upgrade-ability to 24 spline, and HD, parts. And secondly wouldn't mind having the disc brakes. So my idea was to swap in a coiler axle and only shorten the longside. Hence moving the diff further inboard so it doesn't foul the leafspring. And rendering me able to only have one one-off halfshaft made up. basically keeping stock coiler width is not an option as I don't want spats or weird looking rims on it. With regards to steering I don't know if narrowing it will make the cast arms on the swivels hit the spring? suppose not. Was thinking of going the TDI axle route and using the front arms for the drag link as the track rod arms. An obviously connect the drag link to one of the ends, possibly along the track rod like on Toys etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Can you not just measure on the Rangie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 Yes Bowie would be obvious, however it is not at my premises right now due to lack of space. Will get it home again soon though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Will try and get swivel flange to diff centre measurement if it stops raining in a mo... helpful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 Nah Mate you don't have to, I have accurate enough measures to fuel my idea Just have to source a very cheap complete TDi front axle assy that I can play with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 You won't have any problems with narrowing the axle, but moving the diff to clear the spring won't help - you won't get the track rod over the springs with standard height saddles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I have a Stage One V8 fitted with 45 series LandCruiser axles and the steering compared to standard is very imprecise. Plugging the draglink into the trackrod places offcentre loads on the trackrod, causing it to rotate around the tie rod end ball joint axis before the wheels begin to turn. Conversely. this lost motion manifests itself by the wheels following contours on uneven patchwork repaired road surfaces, of which we have many, so that I am always 'chasing' the front wheels with the steering wheel and it is sometimes a real handful on narrow broken roads with 2 way traffic. I am going to try to limit the articulation of the trackrod ball joints as the rod doesn't need to roll very much from lock to lock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 Well Nick I'm not going to use the standard trackrod placing. IIRC the cast arms on the front for the drag link is placed considerably higher. Yeah Bill I have had sort of the same experience, but the ball joint from the drag link wasn't centered on it so figured it would be the main reason why. But figured that the Toyota way was just fine seeing how everybody is so busy pointing out how well Toys are made compared to Landies (this is a joke, now nobody get upset) Anyway I could just go all out Yank style and fit two rose joints and a long bolt, though I would really not prefer this option clearly. Maybe I could even fab up some bolt on bracket for the drag link to fit to. Will be much clearer when I get an actual axle to tinker with. By Yank style I was thinking like this: (post #3) http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=78971 I know quite some people running/having run this sort of setup with no scary side effects. The two things I don't like about though, is the unserviceable joints, and putting all that stress onto one bolt. But again this is a 1300kg car not a behemoth of a mud digger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 This what I have so far but some of the hub dimensions need checking but the axle tube dimensions are from my RRC and SIII axles. You can see where I am going with this! The minus values on the half-shafts are the amount I have to reduce the RRC shafts by. I am using KAM shafts as they have 150mm splines except the front short shaft which is 65mm IIRC. The plus numbers are the spacers needed to get the RRC hubs to SIII axle lengths. The rear spacer is the size needed to get the disc to line up using a front disc, if using a rear disc it needs 3 mm removing but will be too narrow. RRC front axle short:long ratio 1:1.422 SIII front axle short long ratio 1:1.334 My first idea was as you are looking at and I checked the diff movement needed but I gave up in that as too much work. Marc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Thanks for the info Marc, however I'm not sure I completely get what your saying. You basically wan't the same as me, a coiler axle narrowed down to fit a series, correct? But why then are you worried about lengths and distances in the hubs? Why not cut down till you get the same measure from wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface on both axles? And then put the diff in the best possible place and then get shafts cut to suit? I'm sure I'm missing something The biggest hurdle I see is still steering, and there seem to be a lot of debate on which solution is better. No doubt the solution I'd prefer was a swivelhousing disc brake kit from heystee, a 24 spline ashlocker and ashcroft CV's and two custom made shafts. This is the easy solution but also incredibly expensive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Soren, I dropped the use of narrowed RRC in favour of Series tubes with RRC stub axles and hubs on the rear and RRC balls ans swivels etc on the front. Much less work and more std LR parts. Also trying to keep std type axles for UK points to retain registration number. I haven't got to look at steering yet, may see if the drag link will clear the springs as I have 1 ton shackles anyway, but I am also considering the set up you link to but there are comments about the Ackerman angle in other threads but this may be from reversing the hubs not from using a pair of LHD and RHD swivels which is what I think you are considering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Aha I see Thanks for explaining. Yes I see what you mean. But I'm not planning on changing the rearaxle, its fine as it is and I hate having Disc brakes on the rear of my cars, there's always more problems than advantages for me. And as I already have ashcroft shafts in there, it's good enough for me. Are the early RRC swivelballs that bolt to a series still available new? and are they indeed a direct bolt on? because if I have to swap the flanges anyways it might be just as easy making the whole thing out of a coiler axle. But my idea of having only one custom halfshaft is of course not doable if I do it the way you have done. Have you got shafts for yours? Yes you are correct, that is the way I'm planning to do my steering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 The Ackernan angle may not change enough to be noticeable with the right hand drive swivel housing fitted. With standard 5.5 " 109 rims fitted the draglink balljoint clears the rim by roughly the same distance as on a leafer axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The Ackernan angle may not change enough to be noticeable with the right hand drive swivel housing fitted. With standard 5.5 " 109 rims fitted the draglink balljoint clears the rim by roughly the same distance as on a leafer axle. It's not the lateral distance from steering arm to rim but steering arm end to swivel pin axis that affects the Ackerman angle. Since the front arm for the drag link is in a similar lateral position to the rear arms for the track rod, I don't think there's a way of using those (swapping and reversing the existing swivels or using LHD and RHD off side units) without reversing the Ackerman angle. But given your reports of driving like that Bill, it might not matter (still makes no sense to me, but I have never tried it in the flesh). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Hi Soren No RRC 6bolt swivels aren't a direct bolt on as LR made some changes to stop that but a simple adapter ring will do it. What started this approach was a call to Rakeway about custom halfshafts, they told me it would be expensive but to use cut down KAM long splined halfshafts. With your method as long as you use the hub to hub distance you will be fine, if however you use the axle tube length to shorten the RR axle tube it will come out too narrow as the hubs of the RR are narrower than the Series ones! I am resorting to disks for the ease of maintenance not to get better braking, my series brakes well until wet or sandy plus the last drims and shoes I bought were not LR and would not fit. Marc PS 6 bolt swivles better be availeable or eraly RRC owners would have to change the axles! Pretty sure they are. PPS I just remeasured my series axles and found that the front is 25.4mm wider than the rear don't know if this is because the front has wider brake shoes than the rear so 1 ton front axle and 3/4 ton rear axle?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 Hi Marc, thanks for the reply. I have however chosen to go a different route, usually I enjoy making my own stuff but looking at the Heystee kit I was really convinced, it looks very factory and uses all Defender service parts. This combined with a cheap set of new calipers that fell into my hands has made me decide to go this route. So an order was placed at Heystee last weekend. Somewhat expensive but I expect it to be the shizzle! Will of course upload pictures in my 80" thread when they arrive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Yeh not surprised I keep thinking about it but don't have the money for them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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