Does +2" Lift = Welding ACE Arms?

[Shackleton]

Someone just handed me a newspaper called Landy and in it there's an article about best practice when lifting a Disco 2. It says that if you have ACE and want to go +2" lift, you have to put a rear ACE arm on the front, and then weld up a new, longer, rear ACE arm.

My Disco 2 has a +2" OME kit put on by a previous owner. I'd have to jump under to double check but I'm fairly confident from memory of my last inspection that the rear arm isn't welded. It does however have badly worn ball joints, so I need to replace it.

Can't find a definite answer here or on Google, and whereas the front arm visible in a shot in the suspension lift section on discovery2.co.uk looks long, he doesn't mention the issue which makes me wonder.

Anyone know what the story is, and whether I can just buy standard replacements or should I be buying 2 rears and modifying one?

If I need to modify an arm, how long does it need to be and where do I measure from?

George

[Snagger]

Isn't ACE only on the front, the rear handled by air suspension and an anti-roll bar?

[Shackleton]

Some models have springs all round with ACE front and rear mate.

Checking up on this newspaper, realise it's is the first issue, and it seems to be published by Britpart. Wonder how the consistency of journalism compares to the consistency of the parts?

Either way this topic obviously isn't something that's widely documented.

[Snagger]

Interesting. I has thought all the 5-seaters were coil sprung all round, and the 7-seaters had rear air springs and front ACE. I hadn't heart of other combinations.

[discomikey]

our 7 seaters never had ACE, must of been an option i guess

[Shackleton]

Mine's a 5 seater, originally bought in Northern Ireland, so technically UK market.

[mikefitz]

Mine is a '99 D2 5 seater. Has ACE front and rear with rear air suspension. Given air gives it extra ride height I don't how a spring lift can hurt it.

I have gone to a 2" spring lift, TerreFirma, without any issues, so far anyway. The lift only causes the ACE pistons to sit in a different home position due to slight rotation of the anti-roll bar.

[Shackleton]

Yep, seems there's no problem. Just for the record for anyone who happens finds this thread, I asked around and found a couple of Aussies who told me this:

"Up to 2"+ dont worry about it, the ACE links and ACE system function fine.

Lift it to 4" and you'll need a few changes...

Firstly, space the ACE front rods by about 1/4" using a thick washer - theres enough thread to do so.

Rear; fit front arms up the back...

Job done Been running this set up for years."

----

One other thing, that original article in "The Landy"; well it's obviously technically inaccurate, but on top of that, they guy got mixed up cause he says "with the suspension lifted by 2", the [linkages] from the back were just right to go on to the front."

Oh and funnily enough he talks about ACE as though it was only ever fitted to the front. My truck says forget that guy

[Shackleton]

More great info from the Aussies:

"There you go, they stole my fix and got it all wrong!

As you lift the D2 it becomes twitchy, I suspect because of where the weight is positioned in the body and the changes in suspension geometry. 2" is fine, 4" you will definitely notice it and something that I hear about a lot with bigger lifts.

Symptoms are normally twitchyness under brakes and midcorner roll oversteer, but this is through geometry not sliding. It's also a bit flighty as some describe it on the highway and needs constant correcting.

For the front swaybar links, space them down at the top at the bolt by whatever you can get out of them to effectively lengthen the link. The fronts are the long links. You can't run a short rear link at the front because the ACE ram will foul on the Panhard chassis mount. This mod is actually more about clearance than handling.

On the rear which is where the handling problems come from, you need to run a long set of sway bar links to regain the ACE bars geometry again and make them effective. I run the long front links in place of the short rear links. To do this though, you need a fair bit of lift, 4-5" with long travel suspension because you will lose 2" of up travel from where the ACE ram contacts the body and I think the Xmember mount, so extended bump stops are a must. I know of one person who made his links longer by cutting and welding in tube extenders and I think some Jeep parts may also be usable as an option.

What all of this does is remove all of that flightyness, twitchiness and mid corner roll oversteer so it drives like a standard ACE Disco again. For those that understand handling, it gives it an absolutely neutral balance on dirt or road, loaded and unloaded. Even swerving on dirt loaded to the hills it is absolutely composed and balanced.

As a tip, I run a 3/4 Defender ARB roof rack. Heavy load at the rear of the rack like a wheel and tyre will generate the twitchiness again, but heavy weight at the front of the rack does not. I'd expect this will transfer to any roof rack setup on a D2. Take note to those with rearward mounted half racks on a D2."

(Thanks Tombie and Slunnie)

[gilloverland]

^{Never heard of moving the rams, as I understand it you use D2 front droplinks on the back and then D3 droplinks on the front (all of which are longer than standard) so as not to destroy the droplinks.}