rovernut Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 My thirty + year love affair with all things LR has been seriously dented. I am in the process of changing the clutch on SWMBO's Td4 Freelander. The only thing giving me any comfort is the fact that it isn't a real Land Rover just a Ford with a green oval instead of a blue one. ( I had a stronger description of it than just a Ford but thought better of it). Over the years I have had some questionable LR products, (6 cylinder 109 and Discovery Mpi spring to mind) but at least they all had the same thing in common..... The engine points in the right direction and all have a proper transfer box. None are simple clutch changes, but the Freelander is something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallfry Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I know how you feel. Yesterday I thought I would QUICKLY remove my 90V8 engine to test fit its replacement............... Thanks to the PO, or more likely the garage he used, almost every bolt is odd sized, or siezed. I wanted to preserve the exhaust for now, so in oreder to facilitate its removal without cutting it, I tried to remove the gearbox crossmember................... Could I move it ? No chance. Then it started to hail, so cant carry on for the moment. When I went back out, I was looking under the bonnet pondering my next move when I noticed WHY I couldnt move it. Some stupid c**t has run a weld along the top upper edge on one side. WTF is THAT all about ? Now I think the only way I will be able to get at it is to remove the seatbox and that it entails. FFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 What age TD4 is the Freelander. Chances are it is a BMW engine. The 2.0 litre TD4 is almost exactly the same as the engine used in the early 90's BMW 320/520 ranges (as well as the 220 rover cars) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Rovernut, is it a freelander 2? The first generation freelander had nothing to do with ford. OrgasmicFarmer, As far as I know the BMW engines were never fitted to rover 25 or 45, just to the 75. The 25 and 45 kept the rover L series diesel until the very end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 You are probably right about the Rover cars. No idea, just know that some 2.0 l rover cars use the same engine as the beemer and the freelander (just assumed it was the 220, my bad) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 2.0 TD4 is BMW M47 lump and Getrag box, the 4x4 system is Steyr-Puch. 2.2 TD4 (FL2) is Volvo XC (and now RR Evoque too). FL's may be a bit fiddlier than Defenders but compared to other modern stuff they're not too bad. Ever looked under the bonnet of a Disco 3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I think he's referring more to the fact that they have more in common with euro boxes than land rovers ie transverse engine lots of plastic no axles etc. Personally I like the freelander and they're far more capable than they should be given size, power and ground clearance. As for build style land rover had no choice it was robot built mass produced or follow rover to the grave along with nearly all British vehicle manufacturing. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovernut Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 I know the Td4 is a Beemer but wasn't the first diesel in the Freelander 1. The concept and release of the Freelander was during Fords ownership I always thought. Anything with a transverse engine is going to be half accessible and half down the back either under the exhaust manifold or backward slant and then usually with a sub frame and steering rack preventing access from below. Then there is the stupid clutch release, who in gods name thinks putting the hydraulics inside the bell housing is a good design feature. I never thought I would put a Jap 4x4 before any Land Rover product but I much prefer my run around Suzuki Jimny which is far more conventional, reliable and capable than the Freelander. I agree that if LR had not taken this route there would probably be no Land Rover now, but I can't help but think someone on Merseyside slipped the wrong CAD/CAM card into the robots. and ended up with a Sierra on steroids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 The freelander first had the rover L-series diesel, then later got the M47 BMW engine. Ford owned land rover after BMW but before tata. The freelander was designed during the rover years when rover and land rover were one company and owned buy BAE. Some boring history for you there Freelander 2 was developed during the ford years (like disco3 and range rover sport) whilst ford owned Volvo (I'm not sure if they still do) and is based on focus platform as is the xc70. The diesel is a psa (Peugeot Citroen) derived engine Freelander production didn't move to the (ford) halewood plant until the freelander2, before this the halewood plant built ford escorts and later jaguar x types Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovernut Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 Nice potted history Lewis and I stand corrected. Having said that, the wife has a Freelander 1 and my Son a Freelander 2 and I have never taken very much interest in either model. Both have run up huge repair bills in recent months and both with transmission problems. Steyer Puch or Heldex both are expensive to repair when they go wrong. Where as the Jimny has cost £0 in repairs in the last 3 years and even my V8 Disco hasn't cost a quarter of what it has cost on the FL 1 in the same time scale. Faced with the prospect of close to £1k to put this clutch right, I may just cut my losses and scrap it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 If you're scrapping it I could be interested for parts, drop me a PM if you decide to do the chop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 All I know is that whilst you're undoing the sump plug on a 2.2 Freelander there's a big FoMoCo badge embossed into the underside of the engine/box assembly! And the oil filter is in such a god awful position there is no way it could have been designed to go in that car!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 FL1 actually started development back in the Honda years (same as the interior and instruments of the D1). The FL1 and the Honda CRV started as the same basic vehicle with different outer body and engines but then parted ways - there are some aspects of the very early FL1s and early CRVs that are common - particularly in the suspension. The L series diesel is the basic engine that later with 5 cylinders and a completely different injection system became the TD5 (no a BMW engine). Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 FL1 actually started development back in the Honda years (same as the interior and instruments of the D1). The FL1 and the Honda CRV started as the same basic vehicle with different outer body and engines but then parted ways - there are some aspects of the very early FL1s and early CRVs that are common - particularly in the suspension. Thats what I was aware, but could not find any reference so thought I had poor memory! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I find it quite fascinating how the Honda and rover k series engines are the same shape etc yet completely, urm, different! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffield Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 In the beginning the Japanese realised that there was a market place full of people who wanted a Range Rover, but could not afford one. So they produced vehicles similar to RRs, but cheaper. This was the market Landrover entered with the Discovery 1. As this was based on the RR it was a resounding success. The Japanese also realised that there was a market place full of people who thought they wanted a 4X4, but really were comfortable with a front wheel drive saloon. So they produced vehicle that looked 4X4ish, but handled like front wheel drive saloons. It was this market that Landrover entered with the Freelander 1. Unfortunately the only parts bins they could use at the time were Rover's, and although the Freelander was a success as regards sales, as regards engineering less so. Of course after BMW took over they were able to supply a better engine, and the later ones were not so bad. My misses has got a 2 litre petrol Freelander. Awful little thing really, but she loves it. Light and easy to handle and something a bit different to the usual run of the mill cars. She thought the Discovery too big and heavy, and this is where the Freelander scores. Alright if you don't have to repair it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 It's an old argument, I'm a fan of the FL, and the bad rep is entirely undeserved compared to the reliability of other LR products. IMHO the FL does 90% of what a Disco does for about 60% of the running cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I like freelander in the sense they're the closest you can get to the land rover utility vehicle principle/capability without having all the problems of a beam axle vehicle, mainly shonky drive quality and fuel economy Best in class I think Must admit I have far more faith and less trouble with late FL1 than early FL2 The FL2 seem a very flimsy car with all the electrical foibles the ford built early RRS and D3 inherited too Would much prefer a td4 auto to all other vehicles Don't know, have had plenty of experience with both but everything about the FL2 seems/feels like it's on the brink of failure. Maybe they just feel awful but are actually much better, defo had more problems with them than all but the earliest FL1 though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovernut Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 I suppose that my criticism of the Freelander is born out of frustration at having to use the V8 disco while Mrs has my cheap to run Jimny. Having said that, I have spent a lot of hours and parts on the Fl since she has had it.It always seems that no sooner have I fixed one problem, the next one is waiting in the wings. I started driving at the beginning of the 70's when British Motor Engineering was at its worst but still have never had a more unreliable motor than this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Guess some are worse than others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I started driving at the beginning of the 70's when British Motor Engineering was at its worst but still have never had a more unreliable motor than this I also started driving at the beginning of the 70s - my first car was a horrid Morris 1300 Auto - that was the most unreliable car I have owned. My FL1 which I owned for 8 years was on par with my RRS as the most reliable car I have owned. My 3.9V8 Disco was not real good but the FL1 was the best - even better when you take into account I bought it with 170,000km on it so a old car when I got it. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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