Would this make a good heater?

[ToyRoverlander]

I have no heater in my drafty softtop 109 and in winter it is not very nice. I've driven around in -20 and it's ridiculously cold. Now before the coming winter I want a decent heater. Not a LR heater, let me say that. I don't want to use a diesel space heater or similar. Then I came across this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Webasto-or-Eberspacher-Temperature-controlled-heat-exchanger-matrix-3-Speed-Fan-/290970793472?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item43bf35f600

It produces 4.5kw of heat and shifts 195m3 of air an hour. Sounds like a lot but I haven't got a clue if it actually is a lot.. Any input on this?

Let me add, I absolutely hate cold and I want a heater to be able to produce some serieus heat

[simonr]

I heard that a typical car heater shifts about 10-15kw of heat under ideal circumstances. So, a LR heater is probably in the 5-7kw range (being, on the whole inadequate) - so I suspect this too will not give you what you desire.

Consider retro-fitting a Late Td5 heater box. These are actually pretty good! If you need more heat out of it, duct air out of the footwell into the heater to let it re-circulate rather than continually heating cold air.

Consider also fitting heated seats. These make a fantastic difference! Even in the winter I only used the heater for de-misting and the seats to heat me! I bought a set of Waeco heater pads from Foundry and retro-fitted them to my seats.

Si

[missingsid]

Best LR heater available, 8 cylinders, my cab is nice and toasty with underfloor heating!

Hat coat:)

[Pepé le Pew]

Hoi Joost,

I use the Ebersbacher Xeros 4200 heat-exchanger in my serie 2a and its one of my best buys ever.

It has roughly the same specs as the one in your link.

I use it in a 88" truck-cab, so in a 109 it might not do the job.

Edit: I only use mine at the slow fan speed so that gives 3Kw and 150m3/h

At the high speed it does 4,2Kw and 200m3/h but the high speed wire isn't connected so i never tried that.

There is also the Zenith 8000 and the Artik 10000.

http://www.eberspaecher-marine.fr/en/download/blower-heaters.html

Cheers Eric.

[ToyRoverlander]

I don't know where that td5 heater box is located, but if it is in the engine compartement then that's a no-go. There's absolutely no room anymore whatsoever. I steel need to find some room for a remote clutch servo.

Heated seats would be lovely, I really like them. There's just one issue.... my vehicle is 24V. It does have a 600W invertor in it for 12V, I don't know how much they consume?

I heard that a typical car heater shifts about 10-15kw of heat under ideal circumstances. So, a LR heater is probably in the 5-7kw range (being, on the whole inadequate) - so I suspect this too will not give you what you desire.

Consider retro-fitting a Late Td5 heater box. These are actually pretty good! If you need more heat out of it, duct air out of the footwell into the heater to let it re-circulate rather than continually heating cold air.

Consider also fitting heated seats. These make a fantastic difference! Even in the winter I only used the heater for de-misting and the seats to heat me! I bought a set of Waeco heater pads from Foundry and retro-fitted them to my seats.

Si

Joost? Koos

Thanks for the link! I'll have to have a look at those. That's the problem, an empty 109 sofftop has a huge space that has basically no insulation. And it's quite drafty inside, so any heater would have to shift some serieus air and heat to compensate. I'm not too fussed about it dragging in inside air inside of fresh outside air. Plenty of that coming in through all the gaps anyway

Question, I googled the one you have but I'm getting search results for office stuff. Where are they for sale? I can't seem to find any prices on the whole range.

Hoi Joost,

I use the Ebersbacher Xeros 4200 heat-exchanger in my serie 2a and its one of my best buys ever.

It has roughly the same specs as the one in your link.

I use it in a 88" truck-cab, so in a 109 it might not do the job.

Edit: I only use mine at the slow fan speed so that gives 3Kw and 150m3/h

At the high speed it does 4,2Kw and 200m3/h but the high speed wire isn't connected so i never tried that.

There is also the Zenith 8000 and the Artik 10000.

http://www.eberspaecher-marine.fr/en/download/blower-heaters.html

Cheers Eric.

[Bowie69]

You thought about putting a blind from the roof down to the rear bulkhead? I think they called it a fume curtain or something on military LR,, but would have a good benefit of reducing the amount of heated space.

Here we go:

http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o581/thesharples/Stumpy%20%20LAS%20857/DSC01497_zps57274849.jpg

http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o581/thesharples/Stumpy%20%20LAS%20857/DSC01498_zpsd47bebef.jpg

[steve b]

My rear heater in my 109 is a 36 row oil cooler plumbed into the coolant with a rad fan off a Nissan Micra to blow the air. The

whole thing is only about 400mm x 300mm and about 350mm tall to allow room for directional vents out of some car dash.

It works well enough to get rid of all misting and condensation inside in the winter . The fan does pull some amps but moves

a lot of air

cheers

Steveb

[ToyRoverlander]

The thought of a fume curtain has indeed crossed my mind but I wasn't sure how they were mounted. Your pictures cleared that up, thanks. I do see one major issue though. Mine is a 4door converted to sofftop, so it hasn't got the bulkhead behind the seats. So even with a fume curtain there would be something like a 20" gap underneath.

That's the other problem with finding a heater, I need it to be able to fit underneath the dash, on top of the trans tunnel (also different due to engine/gearbox conversion). That means I'm stuck to a certain size limit. I thought about making something myself, but I know how good I am at procrastination . Plus, by the time I add up the price of a suitable heater core and the fans (and being stuck with single speed operation), theres not that much difference with an of the shelf unit, I think. The one in the link I posted above was 119pounds, that's not too bad. Those units provide speed contrl as well. Speed control can be built in obviously, but I'm terrible with electrics so not sure on how to do it.

[simonr]

Seat heater pads are available in 12v and 24v. However a 12v set would be easy to re-wire for 24v. Normally the base and back pads are connected in parallel. If you wire them in series, each will receive 12v.

Si

[tacr2man]

Before you get carried away with putting in a big KWH heater unit , you need the heat to be generated in the engine , coz if its not there the heat exchanger cant utilise it . If the engine is efficient then the heat output is less, and you might be better looking at fitting a webasto or eberspacher diesel fueled unit . JMHO

[Snagger]

If you don't mind having a large pod on your centre dash, then fitting the heater from a 300Tdi Discovery with a custom dash would give amazing results.

[jbs]

I run a "fume curtain' in my hardtop 90 and it's made a real difference too, I use a 300tdi defender heater box and with the fume curtain hanging from the dog guard it seals off the cab area from the rear load area-It's warm to the point sometimes that I have to turn the heater off and open the window slightly

John

[Pepé le Pew]

Joost? Koos

Thanks for the link! I'll have to have a look at those. That's the problem, an empty 109 sofftop has a huge space that has basically no insulation. And it's quite drafty inside, so any heater would have to shift some serieus air and heat to compensate. I'm not too fussed about it dragging in inside air inside of fresh outside air. Plenty of that coming in through all the gaps anyway

Question, I googled the one you have but I'm getting search results for office stuff. Where are they for sale? I can't seem to find any prices on the whole range.

Sorry Koos,

I realised later that i got your name wrong. Well 2 letters were wright anyway.

Have a look at http://www.eberca.nl/downloads/# for dutch prices.

I bought mine at Budget Parts in Drachten but that was a one off i think. It had been lying on the shelf for a while and i haggled and got it realy cheap.

Eberca can no doubt point you in the right direction for purchase.

Benefit of the Eberspacher heat- exchangers is that they come in 12V or 24V.

Here is how i fitted mine in the passenger footwell.

Cheers,

Eric.

[landroversforever]

A big benefit of the 24v is that the eberspachers seem to come up cheaper! as most people are on 12V.

[ToyRoverlander]

Thanks for all the replies everyone!

Before you get carried away with putting in a big KWH heater unit , you need the heat to be generated in the engine , coz if its not there the heat exchanger cant utilise it . If the engine is efficient then the heat output is less, and you might be better looking at fitting a webasto or eberspacher diesel fueled unit . JMHO

Don't think that would be much of a problem with my turboed IDI 3B with modified fuel pump. Will be adding an electric coolant heater as well in time for winter, at least it will already be nice and warm when I get in.

Good to know those seat heaters also come in 24V, I did'nt know that. I'll keep that in mind for now as I want to change over to P38 seats at one point. These Defender seats I've got now hurt my back on longer journeys.

Thanks for that link Eric, will check it out . Sounds like you were lucky .

[Retroanaconda]

Fix the drafts?

[Team Idris]

I really like that heater pack in the first post

Being centrifugal-fan it should be quiet. But I suspect the 4.5 kW is with 99 deg.c water in say 10deg.c cold air? You couldn't build one half as good for the money!

In the S1 landy I have an eberspacer D1 with it's own diesel tank. But it was quite a wodge of cash.

On the van I have the old style mains powered Kenlow water heater and that is excellent, as it saves the engine from cold startup white sludge. It only does 12 minuets to work each day and it's still all nice and black in the engine

[discomikey]

thought i would put in my useless 2p.

in my 88" truck cab, i run a standard series III heater (on an overly cool 200TDi) and if i hold my fingers over the dash vents i have to take them away as they start to burn. i have to open the windows in the winter sometimes to add some cool air (have no proportioning valve due to my conversion. (have one to fit somewhere though never seen the need to fit it)

it does get lovely and toasty in there! but thats a far cry from a 109" softtop. (to be fair probably is more warm naturally than the ali skinned hardtop)

[ToyRoverlander]

Fix the drafts?

Kinda difficult on a 4door converted to softtop .... I have to say, this softtop just doesn't line up well. At the windscreen corners it just doesn't want to sit well. Just behind the front doors there's a huge gap between the canvas and the steel frame thing. The rear top corners are more like vent holes, it doesn't want to sit right. I've given up a long time ago. Door seals leave a lot to be desired as well, though it is a lot better than it used to be.

The one in the link I posted is not half as good looking as the ones in Pepe le Pews link. The specs are at 80degrees water temp and an X amount of water flow. I'm going to have to measure what would fit. They have some nice options. The one with similar specs as the one I showed in that link was only €126. The next one up, that on its low setting pumps out more heat than the other one at full blast came in at €270 IIRC.

[discomikey]

thats what expanding foam is for isnt it?

hat, coat, off i go

[ToyRoverlander]

The yellow color doesn't match the bodywork nor the canvas

[Pepé le Pew]

The one in the link I posted is not half as good looking as the ones in Pepe le Pews link. The specs are at 80degrees water temp and an X amount of water flow. I'm going to have to measure what would fit. They have some nice options. The one with similar specs as the one I showed in that link was only €126. The next one up, that on its low setting pumps out more heat than the other one at full blast came in at €270 IIRC.

The Zenith 8000 starts at 227 euro.

Fixing the drafts makes a lot of difference,but not easy on a softtop.

I closed of all the open bolt holes in the bulkhead with gaffer tape and that alone makes a huge difference in winter.

Good sealing rubbers on the two vents in the bulkhead is also important.

I have the stick-on Defender ones on the inside of the flaps and the original serie ones on the bulkhead. These two combined stopt all the draft from there.

The serie 2a is my daily drive and during the winter i use the metal truckcab but as soon as the weather improves i switch over to a bikinitop combined with a fume curtain to close the back on rainy days. The truckcab is a bit less drafty then the bikinitop,but not a lot.

Like i said, i never used my heater at the high setting and never felt the need to.

What also helps is using a radiator muff in the colder month. I never close it off alltogether but leave the flap open.

My thermostat works fine,but i find that with the muff the under bonnet temp is higher so there is less cold coming through the bulkhead and less heat dissipation via the pipes/hoses that go to the heater. End result is that warmer air comes out of the heater and less cold through the bulkhead.

Closing the front with a fume curtain will certainly help even though yours is a stawag.

Hot air rises so the gap at the bottom won't have a very big effect and you can always close that off with a homemade temporary bulkhead.

Cheers,

Eric.

[ToyRoverlander]

Little update

Last winter I didnt't need a heater as I spend 5 months in Australia. This year I wanted to be prepared for what's to come. So first I fixed same drafts. I lifted the rail that fits on top of the windscreen, with the hooks for the canvas roof, to put down a bead of silicone sealant to stop rainwater spraying onto my face while driving. I added some extra foam strips to the doors to help seal them better. So hopefully that helps a lot.

And I've finally bought a heater!!! The Xeros 4200 made by Eberspacher. It fits well in front of the gearstick. Finally I can enjoy some warmth in the cab . I can always add a clear plastic screen to the rollcage to seperate the load area.

[g&t]

Slightly off-topic but the best heater I've ever known, back in the days when my hobby was WW2 military vehicles, was the standard-fit unit in a Dodge WC54 ambulance. Fitted to the lower bulkhead in front of the passenger (attendent's) seat it contained two fans, both speed-controlled by a stageless rheostat, one for the footwells & the other for de-frosting. It got so hot (only utilising the engine coolant) that the air flow would burn the passenger's legs & heated an (insulated) interior much larger than a 109's - & this was in the 1940's!

[ToyRoverlander]

So might be just a tad hard to find