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bobtail84

Project Thor.

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Now before we start lets get something straight from the start.. I am no engineer, mechanic, fabricator or anything that might hint that I know what I'm doing. So if you see something or more to the point when you see some thing that may or may not be iffy, dodgy or just plain stupid please feel free to let me know.

I'm sure ya'll will... :P

This is an ongoing project that HFH and I have been trying to get going for a while so I will be working on this quite a lot as I need my motor back on the road sharpish.

1st you need a MegaSquirted V8

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Then you need to remove some bits..

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A few to many parts may be?

Ok put some bits back on..

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Just so ya'll know I had a head gasket issue, blowing between 2 & 3 to the out side so no internal problems. When I lifted the plenum and O/S head off the cam was a bit iffy, mind you it had been in the engine for over 150,000 miles and quite a few of the previous owners had not been too regular with the maintenance so I lifted the other head and put new cam, Viper cyclone from Realsteel, new lifters, timing chain and sprockets and pushrods to freshen up the old girl. The rockers and shaft were in surprisingly good condition so were kept.

Fitting the Thor manifold is just a nut and bolt exercise but some parts like the coil pack bracket, water temp sensor, throttle cable, fuel line connectors and heater hoses and quite possibly a few other parts will need a few changes but nothing to difficult, even for me. :rolleyes:

All of the above will addressed and documented right here so let the fun begin.. :ph34r:

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Right....... The Thor manifold has a different thermostat and out let and HFH has come up with a very good solution.

1st make sure you have all the parts needed.

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Then offer up the 2 spacers to make sure the bolts are not to long. HFH recommends that you DO check as Landrover made lots of different thicknesses of housings.

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As you can see there is a couple of mil gap and that was just nipped up.

I just ground a bit off of the bolts then reassembled the whole assembly just to make sure all fits properly

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When your sure everything is OK disassemble then re-assemble using your favorite sealer.

I also wanted to keep the pipe work near as possible "normal"..

With the bunch of nanas placed on top I offered up the original by-pass pipes.

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A bit of a bend on the mounting bracket to see how we go..

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Measure, mark and cut the excess pipe off..

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Then offer up again with pipe and check..

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I also found a small problem in that on the original 3.9 manifold there were 2 temp senders. 1 for the MS and 1 for the gauge on the dash. On the Thor manifold there is only 1. If you are like me and like to see how hot the beast is running I found this...

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It was on eBlag but HFH is looking for a cheaper solution but this works for me.. All that was required was a splice between the bypass at the back of the water pump and the metal pipe. Job done.

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How important is it to keep those rusty bypass/heater pipes? I was going to ditch them on mine and try and run a single rubber hose for each one to eliminate as many joins as possible and then use the manifold heat pipe to bleed it (not Thor but since you are playing at the same stage)

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I have just rubber pipes, and no issues bleeding the system.

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There are actually 2 temperature senders on the Bosch, they just happen to be on the same plug ;)

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How important is it to keep those rusty bypass/heater pipes? I was going to ditch them on mine and try and run a single rubber hose for each one to eliminate as many joins as possible and then use the manifold heat pipe to bleed it (not Thor but since you are playing at the same stage)

I'm only using the rusty pipes as I'm trying to use as many 3.9 parts as possible, this project is to show that it can be done on an older lump.

I have just rubber pipes, and no issues bleeding the system.

At some point in the future I will have a pipe sort out.

There are actually 2 temperature senders on the Bosch, they just happen to be on the same plug ;)

Your just too clever.. :P

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Out of curiosity again, is there a reason for using two spacers for the thermostat instead of just one? I guess it makes it easy to ensure the thermostat is seated properly. Also on the same topic would it not have been just as easy to use an aftermarket inline thermostat? Although I guess with this set up it uses the original radiator pipes where as an inline one with the Thor outlet might need something different.

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Out of curiosity again, is there a reason for using two spacers for the thermostat instead of just one? I guess it makes it easy to ensure the thermostat is seated properly. Also on the same topic would it not have been just as easy to use an aftermarket inline thermostat? Although I guess with this set up it uses the original radiator pipes where as an inline one with the Thor outlet might need something different.

Extra spacers just to keep a good flow.

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OK more updating.....

This one might be of use to cheesy.

The original Rover TPS does it's job but the plug is poo.. So with the Thor conversion you...

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Next you need these from HFH nice stuff supplies division..

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Now don't get me wrong I can and will solder, nowhere as good as ze solder miester Fridge Freezer but it will pass muster. These little beauties are fantastic.

I extended my loom to match the crayola crayon standard loom diagram (as used by MegaSquirt-V8 Ltd)

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The Thor TPS has 1 2 3 on the body and the plug is also numbered the same so you can't get the wires round the wrong way IF you pay attention to what your doing.

Bosch TPS

No1 is 5v

No2 is Gnd

No3 is Signal

MS crayola

Pin 19 Grn is Gnd

Pin 22 Red is Signal

Pin 26 Yellow is 5v

This little Linky might be of use.

Anyway get the proper plug from HFH

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Protect

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And serve..

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Now, there are 1 or 2 little jobs that are needed for the conversion but nothing to drastic..

The throttle cable on the 3.9 is longer and no bloomin good for the Thor top end..

So try and acquire a 4.0 disco or RR cable then get yourself on a popular interweb site or down to your favorite motor parts supplier and ask for this..

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As this is the problem..

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So trim the lead off and fit the clevis..

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You may have have to trim the plastic to fit.

The end result is what you need.

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Just so you know.... It's a runner.. :D But more about that later.. ;)

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Coil Packs...

Back when Cpt Birdseye was an able seaman a friend of mine knocked up 3 coilpack mounts, all slightly different but all trying to do the same job. Mine is Mk3

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They have been knocking about for bloomin years and now I have just the place for them..

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I must admit that they do work well.

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Now the eagle eyed pepps out there will have noticed that the coil pack plugs are facing in wards but when I fitted the top hose the N/S plug won't fit.. Bugger..

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So I turned them round and when I mentioned the slight problem to HFH he slapped his thigh and laughed like a cavalier... It transpires that Ford did the same on the Mondeo and when it rained the car stopped. That's why we now have water proof coil pack plugs...

The end result was OK though.

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More soon.

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Not long now Nige.. :popcorn-and-drink-smiley-emotic

Now, the Thor manifold has no PRV on the rail like the Hot Wire so HFH came up with a separate PRV. If look carefully you can see it lurking in the middle at the back.

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I fitted mine there as although my car is a genuine V8 RR the engine is quite close to the bulk head and the mounting HFH designed is a bit too tight to fit on my truck. I used the bracket that was supplied with the PRV and as we are in R&D at the moment the bracket will do. I will fab a new and stronger one shortly.

The fuel rail is a bit different but it's just what is needed.

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The RED circle is the main feed for the fuel rail.

The Yellow circle will be you return. If you look closely you can see a schrader valve. You will need to remove this as it will inpead the flow...

Then you need a fuel line connector. I used the "fuel purge pipe" connector from a 4.0Ltr Discovery. I have a Jag fuel pump on my motor so I just fitted a new fuel line from the pump to the connector. On the purge pipe there are 2 connectors, one is straight and the other angled. I used the angled one but they both work fine.

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Then you run the return pipe from the YELLOW circled pipe on the fuel rail picture to the PRV No2.

This diagram might be of use.

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You need to 'T' in to the MAP sensor pipe and connect to No1,

No3 is the return to the tank.

As a side bitty I did have some issues with the return pipe leaking due to the higher pressure in the fuel line.. Ahh did I mention the higher pressure for the Thor injectors? Bugger...

OK the Hot Wire, depending where you read, runs at 2.5 bar or 34 to 36 PSI. Thor, again depending where you read, runs at 3.6 bar or 52 PSI.

So when you convert yours make sure the lines are all good as your raising the fuel pressure by just over 1 bar.

This might be useful... :ph34r:

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So after making sure the fuel stays in the fuel pipe it was time to fire it up. The car has been running on LPG for a week as I had to "break in" the new cam and lifters but that was a "known" good running solution and helped with the whole making sure every thing worked scenario.

HFH and I had tossed back and forth what might be needed, Msq wise, to make the engine run.As the Thor draws more air and the injectors are higher pressure we thought that some changes would be needed.

I primed it a few times to get the right pressure at the PRV then cranked the old girl over...

This is the Tuner Studio view..

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The Msq I used with out any modification was the same as the original Hot Wire Msq that I have run for years... I did tweak the idle but that is all.

Lets just say HFH and I are quite surprised. I will be data logging this week but it appears all is well. :i-m_so_happy:

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Looking good, I take it you have a manual in that truck as it looks like the cable for a ZF4 wouldnt be long enough to reach the throttle linkage.

Is it actually necessary to run the fuel pressure that high?

It looks like the Thor 0280155787 injectors flow about the same as all the other Rover ones, 190cc @ 3bar

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Cheesy, the truck is a manual and according the the UK RAV manual "V8 fuel pressure is 3.5 bar 50 psi

regulated at the pump". I will be checking the injectors just in case..

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Superb, sounds smooth, just need to take it for a test drive in the dirt..

We will soon..

Kwak1261 was the gentleman that helped get the engine from a bare block to within a few hours of running on a hot Sunday in July.

With out him I would be still trying to work out which way round the timing gears went. Thanks man. :i-m_so_happy:

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nice thread jeff

looking forward to seeing it in the flesh, :i-m_so_happy:

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Apparently there is a new smallish problem.....this was after some initial tunning....

Something apparenelty about spinning wheels on tarmac in 2nd gear ?...I am sure Jeff will be along to clarify the details later lol

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Apparently there is a new smallish problem.....this was after some initial tunning....

Something apparenelty about spinning wheels on tarmac in 2nd gear ?...I am sure Jeff will be along to clarify the details later lol

:lol: I did have a small problem with the TPS so I changed that and my idle and cold start returned to normal. I have been driving the motor to and from work and just lurking around, you know testing and fine tuning, not just wasting fuel and making noise.. :rolleyes:

The car started life with a 3.5 on carbs and 7 years ago I stuffed a 120,000 mile 3.9inj from a 92 RRC and squirted it. It has always "gone" quite well but it's a Range Rover with the aerodynamics of a church.. BUT with the THOR top end and Viper Cyclone cam it is definitely more "perky"... :P

With my road tires, 35x12.50 15 BFG Mud Terrain's I have never had traction issues till now.. If I pull out from a junction it will light up the back wheel and if I get funky with it the axle starts tramping......

To say I'm pleased with the conversion is an understatement. The car was never that slow but it will keep up with the normal flow of traffic with ease and just driving around is a pleasure. I have a 3 day event at the end of the month so I will report on how well it performs off road... :D

More soon...

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Update....

I had a major shake down in September which did throw up a few minor issues. :moglite:

The overall conversion is just fantastic, it's a true delight to drive but as this is an R&D project I was expecting some teething problems.

I run my truck on LPG most of the time using a "cooker ring" system with out any problems but the Thor top end draws quite a bit more air than the Hot wire so I did have a few "lean" moments.. I now need a new K&N air filter as mine now looks like a balloon because of a couple of back fires at idle and low acceleration. It was just a few adjustment and that was sorted.

Running petrol I have had no problems. I have not lowered the PRV pressure from 3.6 bar or 52psi as it runs like a dream so don't fix whats working..

The Temp sensor was, I thought, showing higher readings than that where true so I unlimbered the snapon IR temp doofer and the difference is within tolerances but the oil pressure fell off the gauge..... I came home from an event with no indicated oil pressure and 92c on the MT water temp gauge.

We were fully loaded with kit on a kin hot day but I was very concerned.

I removed the oil pressure sensor that is for the oil light and fitted an oil pressure gauge and...... all was well, 25psi at hot idle and 40psi 2000 plus rpm. That is with all standard oil pump parts. I purchased a new oil pressure sender and all is good.

If you do fit the Thor kit there maybe some sensor differences but if your engine is in good condition you will an engine with 4.6 torque and 3.9 zing and that is what this project is all about. :i-m_so_happy:

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Update....

I had a major shake down in September which did throw up a few minor issues. :moglite:

The overall conversion is just fantastic, it's a true delight to drive but as this is an R&D project I was expecting some teething problems.

I run my truck on LPG most of the time using a "cooker ring" system with out any problems but the Thor top end draws quite a bit more air than the Hot wire so I did have a few "lean" moments.. I now need a new K&N air filter as mine now looks like a balloon because of a couple of back fires at idle and low acceleration. It was just a few adjustment and that was sorted.

Running petrol I have had no problems. I have not lowered the PRV pressure from 3.6 bar or 52psi as it runs like a dream so don't fix whats working..

The Temp sensor was, I thought, showing higher readings than that where true so I unlimbered the snapon IR temp doofer and the difference is within tolerances but the oil pressure fell off the gauge..... I came home from an event with no indicated oil pressure and 92c on the MT water temp gauge.

We were fully loaded with kit on a kin hot day but I was very concerned.

I removed the oil pressure sensor that is for the oil light and fitted an oil pressure gauge and...... all was well, 25psi at hot idle and 40psi 2000 plus rpm. That is with all standard oil pump parts. I purchased a new oil pressure sender and all is good.

If you do fit the Thor kit there maybe some sensor differences but if your engine is in good condition you will an engine with 4.6 torque and 3.9 zing and that is what this project is all about. :i-m_so_happy:

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Nice project & sounds really nice.

I squirted a 3.5 with 3.9 manifold. Really satisfied with the outcome.

Now just received a "good" 4.6 with THOR and thinking of upgrading.

What have you done with the waterpump housing? Is this the original 3.9 housing?

Thanks,
Tom

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Hi, I have a thor systeme in my garage, and i would to know if this systeme give more torque ??

i have a 4.6l with HW manifold and MS, but no very torque for me , and I love torque

thanks a lot

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Antoine, the later THOR inlet gains approx. 20lb/ft at low RPM.

If your 4.6 does not have a lot of torque now, maybe you need to check the tuning?

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