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Craig Davis EWP150 Electric Water Pump & Controller & COOLING


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Or to put it another way, it's never as simple as it sounds.

Fitting a smaller pulley to the factory water pump has been mentioned, but RV8 pumps are not designed with racing in mind & are known for cavitating even on standard low-revving lumps, so on a revvy race engine the thing could be cavitating whenever you put your foot down and flowing no water at all, then when you lift off it dumps a load of boiling water through the system and everything is panic mode. Maybe a BIGGER pulley would slow the pump down & help prevent cavitation? Just one of many possibilities. Have you considered a coolant swirl pot?

I haven't seen any serious mention in this thread of actually measuring what's really happening in the engine bay before rushing out & buying new bits. A few quid spent on ebay, you could actually be measuring things like the drop across the radiator to work out if the problem is related to not enough flow, too much flow, not enough radiator, not enough airflow, etc. USB Temperature loggers are all of a couple of quid, a handfull of those strewn round the place plus the datalog from the ECU could tell you a hell of a lot.

There's a risk here that an EWP will solve the problem, but you'll never actually know what the problem really was in the first place and how well you solved it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Righty Ho then all ....an Update

I have previous (tho not posted up) been investigating / before and after EWP :

  • Heat in various areas of the LR vs Guages
  • Guages - I have a SPA Guage mounted in the manifold front and a EWP in the therm housing (other side of plate)
  • Had "Patches" stuck under bonnet / wings / rear bulkhead / engine - to see whats getting where
  • Riogged up a serioulsy "Colin Furze" stylee Powder extinghusher on grill and activated to see where follow goes / doesn't
  • Changed and piddled about with the 2 x sensors to see if the radiator is dumping heat between in and out
  • and a load more lookies

What I have discovered is

  • Extinghusers make a massive mess :rofl: but showed a few thing flow wise
  • that the flow was good through radiator and cowling, that on the road heat goes from underneath
  • Hot spots are the top area around the engine exhaust area and inner wings
  • Sensors even tweeked didn't get on top iof the heat enough
  • There is a small variance between what the SPA Guiage reads and the EWP Pump reads (5 degrees)
  • Heat gets trapped when off road, and even the vents in the wings don't help much even when tapped up

So, the plan was to finish the EWP install and see what that did

post-22-0-57841600-1408194438_thumb.jpg

This is the "Controller" you set a "Target Temp" - in my case 80 degrees and then the pump speeds up / slows down to try to maintain target temp

On start up it goes into a pulse mode which speeds up water heating up, flashing of the 75 degree light = temp below 75...it now heats up faster than as std !

If it goes over the target temp you get warning lights in 5 degree tweaks.

On stopping the engine the pump continues for 2 mins to aid cooling and aviod heat sink (like that)

post-22-0-57342000-1408194446_thumb.jpg post-22-0-92385200-1408195308_thumb.jpg

My Tablet Ali mount was modificated to take the controller, and it all conected up. There is also a system test light dash mounted this comes on when powered, lights up and goes out if all ojk, if it comes on at anytime its shows a error....

For information I can aslo advise I am running 30% mix (Blue) Antifreeze. Have 2 x Sensors, which trigger 2 x independat SPAL High Out Fans, these sensor have been lowered so they come on BEFORE the heat gets over 85, first comes on at around 78, the 2nd at 85. Before the EWP these would pretty much come on and stay on with anything less than crusing on the road - other than that they were always on, engine 90-95 and if booted hotter

Off raod heat was a HUGE Issue, slow speeds 2nd low, ruts closing off exit under the 90 etc 90-100 very quickly, and sometimes a real problem with some panicking thrown in ...

After the EWP was fitted (We had to bleed the system - easy but it is NOT a self bleed) we fired it up.

The fans have 3 x settings, same on each

OFF / On via Sensor / Overridide ie ON whatever !

We set the Fans to sensor on, and ran it up, sitting on the drive on a seriously hot day no leaks and around 85 degrees, one fan popping on then off. A drive showed at least a 10 degree reduction, BUT heavy booting saw heat climb, but, even on serioulsy hot day 95 max :)

Then we went off road. Closed ground under 90, hot day 2nd low and some beans saw heat jumping 85-95 defo lower but still tricky, fans ended up both on, keeping heat at around 95+ max, good but still not right. This is borderline too hot, so no margin for any more. Both fans flat out. so its good, but still not there.

Much thinking later I went off to the same lane on my own (yes I know .....I didn't !) and drove it noting how it drove and what the temp was before I started, during and then at the end.

90-95 during 80- bang on at start, both fans on.

Then I removed the bonnet hide it * :rofl: and did the same again 80 at start 85 hottest at the end, under 80 by time got back to bonnet !

So, EWP is cooling well, there is a big degrees drop between the in / out of the ali rad, and the fans work well, but I think the heat generated externally under the bonnet is not able to escape.

So plans now are to have the centre rear section of the 90s bonnet Louvred in 5" louvres and also look to reducing under bonnet heat with maybe exhaust wraps (Mine ar JED Big Bore Cast Units) which whlsit I am not a lover of on cast is better (rotting headers is easy with soggy exhaust wrap - think cast should be OK ?) Lourves and some more thinking..

On possibility (the final resort) is a read mounted rad, as this increases capacity hugely, and the EWP can easily cope with pushing it all around, more immedaite is I have a lovely Alisport Ali Heater matrix, mine is not in great condition, and an ali one apparently gives a bgetter heater and may help dump heat, and the other possiblity is to make a tank up, in an odd shape plumb into system and thereby increase the capacity

But, EWP+ at LEAST 10-15 degress of temps, faster to get back under control, and has helped a huge amount

More to come ..............

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As I've said, I'm having pretty much identical problems. After much general fanning about with bits of wool and IR temperature probes I ended up putting a vent in the rear of the bonnet bulge. It has had some effect, it's definitely an improvement but I can see me having to add additional vents somewhere above the headers. I replaced the RHS wing top panel with one from a LHD motor and that has also helped a bit.

post-2025-0-90135900-1408204078_thumb.jpg

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Interesting Dave :)

I will see if I can find an article I googled, but someone did the same with a J**P :rofl: and its a similar result.

Interestingly he found drilling big holes a la back crorners moved air away from the engine ie through rad and across wing inners and up and out of the bonnet,

and holes in rear section of bonnet = reduced underhood heat and also

the air still whizzed across the engine :)

If I can find it I'll post it up, one of many late might googling sessions :moglite::)

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And

From everything I have read :

THIS : http://www.composites.fi/news/land-rover-defender-composite-hood is the wrong route LOL

My current "Mind Plan" is either 2 x Rows or 4 x Rows of 5" Louvres which I can get stamped into my bonnet directly at 1 per 1" 7mm "Gap" on the lift

ie for a 12" run thats 12 x 5" louvres, x 2 = 24 and x 4 = 48

Means taking the strengthening H section off, then redoing it to make it fit later, and a respray, which being near standard is essential :D

You have a PUMA ? bonnet ?? poss trickier, and hence why I was asking re TD5 vs what I have, seems I'll be modifying butchering mine lol

Something around this area :

post-22-0-23113700-1408209272_thumb.jpg

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My petrol is lovely and easy to cool :-) but I guess that's the benefit of going modern!

No point to my thread other than to brag :-p

Heat output is a direct result of power, you are bragging that you only have a small one, that's unusual but fair play to you :)

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My current "Mind Plan" is either 2 x Rows or 4 x Rows of 5" Louvres which I can get stamped into my bonnet directly at 1 per 1" 7mm "Gap" on the lift

ie for a 12" run thats 12 x 5" louvres, x 2 = 24 and x 4 = 48

Means taking the strengthening H section off, then redoing it to make it fit later, and a respray, which being near standard is essential :D

You have a PUMA ? bonnet ?? poss trickier, and hence why I was asking re TD5 vs what I have, seems I'll be modifying butchering mine lol

Yep, when I fitted the LS and gearbox the old military bonnet was in a real state after years of squaddies and the spare wheel bouncing on it. The Puma bonnet at the time wasn't ridiculously expensive and it resolved a problem with the gearbox dipstick sitting too high for the standard bonnet :)

Since then Land Rover have had a rethink and quadrupled the price of the bonnets so if I was doing it now I'd use a TD5 bonnet and bend the dipstick tube !

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Nige,

If you consider a rad in the back, make sure it's an additional radiator. Keep the one in the front and your current cooling setup.

Just adding more water and staying with one rad means it will be harder to lower the water temperature as you will be building up a lot of heat energy in the water and therefore take longer to dispel the heat if you don't increase the cooling capacity proportionately....

You seem to need more cooling capacity, not necessarily more water capacity...

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Aye.

Had a rear engine racer. ..was a pig with air locks and lack of airflow...

next is da wikid louvres and da blue runnin lights unda da truck and see then. ....

I put a bleed point in the highest point up front and that makes bleeding easy on my rear rad system

As for airflow, its never going fast enough to generate any by forward movement, the only airflow is via hot air rising (nothing to stop it like a bonnet at the rear) or when working hard, usually one of the 2 fans kicks in.

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