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4.0 MS Install - Questions


ThreePointFive

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Have indeed!

I did initially have it T-connected into the MAP pipe but looking to use a redundant plenum outlet further up (centre of photo below) seemed like a clean solution...until the point I offered up the pipe and it became clear it would never fit. I'll have to think about that one.

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Edited by ThreePointFive
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This is the problem with buying an engine that came with almost every pipe cut or entirely missing, can't tell what goes where without consulting diagrams that don't always match up with what I have in front of me.

So that implies there is a corresponding port on the crankcase...

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Thanks for the help, as always.

Moved on to another job, and the giant smack in the balls that is this build continues to supply obstacles at every opportunity.

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Knock sensor - do I need it? Does MS use it? Is it just a case of smacking the fitting flush like a butcher or is there an easy way to blank it off?

 

Meanwhile, on the other side...

Bought a full system from Double S exhausts, I know they're a well known brand around here. Until I have the knock sensor dealt with, none of it will line up properly.

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Still have to finish the loom, place the ECU in a suitable box, sort out the standard wiring to the starter, finish the fuel pipe routing away from the manifold and anywhere that's going to rub... then I'm almost ready to fire it up for the first time.

 

Megasquirt is not for people like me.

Edited by ThreePointFive
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1 hour ago, ThreePointFive said:

Megasquirt is not for people like me.

Three Point Five..... if you think it is a headache fitting it then just wait till you try tune it !!!!

saying that......I converted my flapper to MS1, using one of Nige's kits, and now that I have got it running sweetly it is SUCH A PLEASURE, so much MORE of a pleasure than the flapper was!!!!

so while I was also very very VERY frustrated at times installing my MS and even more frustrated tuning it...... I think it has been worth it!!!

a HUGE help has certainly been this forum, without that I would often have floundered or given up...

 

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Half the setup with MS is doing it properly, you can do it very minimally by cutting the end off a crusty old flapper loom and be running in an afternoon but Nige's kit is a ground-up fresh and proper install.

MS suffers from being all things to all people and the documentation (outside of Nige's specific stuff) covers too many bases, there's no short version. Still, better than not enough info.

Another problem is over-thinking it, just 'cos there's a load of wires doesn't mean it's complicated, ultimately the bones of it is a very simple setup and the tuning rules are no different to carbs & points - you just set it using a laptop rather than a screwdriver.

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Actually not that shiny. I'm not saying I'm disappointed but I thought the point of stainless was that it was... stain...less...

Nonetheless, it bolts on to the engine after removal of the knock sensor so now I only have to contend with the Y pipe's apparent desire to terminate in the passenger chassis rail.

To sort of qualify my earlier anti-megasquirt comments, there are many factors that made my build less than ideal. It really isn't for beginners like me. It even more so isn't for one that can't do it one go and has time away from it.

That said, without this forum I'd be completely screwed. There's a lot of info out there about MS generally but there are so many different applications that not all of the information is relevant. 

That's why the guys on here doing P38 conversions are unbelievably useful.

Oh well. I'm probably the better part of £1.6k into this engine including MS and I don't even know it isn't seized. :D

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On ‎25‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 1:43 PM, bodumatau said:

Three Point Five..... if you think it is a headache fitting it then just wait till you try tune it !!!!

+1 on this - the problem with MS is that because it is so easy to adjust you never actually finish adjusting everything - my daily has been MS'd for a couple of years now at least and I am still tweaking things here and there occasionally, its almost perfect but there's always room for improvement!

5 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Bad news is those manifolds will go a lovely rusty colour after a few runs, most grades do, it's only certain ones that polish up and stay shiny and (I believe) they're not as strong.

Even if the stainless itself doesn't rust usually you get some transfer of steel from the tooling used to form it, this is embedded into the exhaust material and will give the rusty hue.

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1 hour ago, Quagmire said:

Even if the stainless itself doesn't rust usually you get some transfer of steel from the tooling used to form it, this is embedded into the exhaust material and will give the rusty hue.

You are supposed to passivate the stainless after fabrication to fix that problem.  Stainless does not mean stain-less.  It just means there is enough chromium in the steel to prevent oxidation in air.

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You can tweak MS ad infinitum, but I'm very lazy so both my trucks I got as far as "runs better than it ever did" and left it alone after not very much tuning at all. Both of them have been driven on long excursions (109 test drive was Russia, Ambulance did Norway & back this year without a beat missed) and although I know there's so much I could tweak to improve it, using the trucks takes priority over fiddling.

It's easy to worry about the last 1% when you can see it on the laptop, when you were on carbs & dizzy you were probably miles out most of the time but had no idea.

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In truth I'm not so worried about the look of the exhaust, It's just not what I'd expected from the descriptions I'd heard of similar systems. If it really bothers me there's always high temp paint, though I've been researching wrapping and ceramic coatings. That said, it seems like both bring their own problems and while under-bonnet temperature is definitely something I'd like to control, I'm not sure that any claimed performance gains are worthwhile on a landbarge like this. Not to mention cost...

I was looking forward to the tuning aspect of MS. I'd intended to take it on a dyno to work out exactly what the output is and get the most usable curve from the MS. I'm sure the exhaust and stupid intake will yield a whole 1BHP on their own but I'm not really interested in peak power as I am torque at low revs and making it nice to drive.

I remember that Adrian Flux wanted to know the exact increases of any engine mods so it would allow me to kill two birds.

 

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  • 3 years later...

I thought it might be worth reviving this after a call to Nigel suggested I post up about an issue we can't diagnose - no spark. I called him to buy a new EDIS because I thought I'd ruled out almost everything else, he believes it is the coils and that someone on here might know if I have cocked up the wiring of that. However, on trying to gather info to post up about that I think I've found some weird behaviour.

Fridge has also been helping me come on leaps and bounds with MS, but I can't abuse his help and I have reached the extent of my understanding.

So first thing - everything is wired in properly according to the MS manual's diagram with the following exception that my relays are wired up as per this diagram below. The way the coils are powered is the same as the MS manual, with a purple/white wire from the fuel pump relay and EDIS for the other four wires.

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On ignition, my  fuel pump primes and powers off, the main relay gets power, the ECU is live and the injectors click. I get 14 volts to the middle pin on the EDIS. Measuring at the plug to the coils, i'm getting the following on the white/purple wire:

As you can see, 13.something volts when on ignition, then dropping to 10v while cranking until a certain point when it all seems to drop off.

Here is the pin for the brown/green wire to the same plug:

As you can see, 3.5v while on ignition and then all over the place while cranking but low (or negative) numbers. I assume none of this is correct? Sorry about the video sizes.

Edited by ThreePointFive
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Where is your ignition switched live coming from ? Be worth checking that is staying live during cranking, seen a few people converting from diesels and finding that the switched ignition live they picked up is fine when ignition is on but drops to 0 when cranking.
 

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11 hours ago, Dave W said:

Where is your ignition switched live coming from ? Be worth checking that is staying live during cranking, seen a few people converting from diesels and finding that the switched ignition live they picked up is fine when ignition is on but drops to 0 when cranking.

^ This, there's a fair few variants of switch that turn one or more feeds off when cranking.

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I thought we were on to something there, so I changed out the relays for brand new ones - no change.

Checked the feed stays live while it's cranking - it does.

And now the fuel pump won't prime. It's not the relay as sticking an earth on the right pin makes the pump work. It's the forking ECU.

This is getting really frustrating. I cannot locate what's changed, the ECU is still live, Pin 37 on the D37 plug is getting power and talks to the laptop. So what could this be now?

And I still haven't got anywhere near sorting out the spark.

Edited by ThreePointFive
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