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Kam or ashcroft


chris2010
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I'm not a great advert with; "KAM diffs are great and work really well now I have modified/drilled the plungers" :)

Kam half shaft in the back looked okay the other day on inspection, but I'm not renowned for ragging it. I like my Ashcroft front shafts. I don't think you can get better without going all mad and expensive. (Nissen axel probably is good, but better than Ashcroft ? No idea ? Seems unlikely )

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Big issue with Allmakes is that they are only interested in volume items, anything more specialised and they won't sell them.

KAM have addressed some markets that others have not but Allmakes aren't interested in selling them!

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Steve and I worked for KAM

I am a Ashcroft approved dealer

Think it through and work it out....

Sorry Nige but not really a great comment, if you believe that Ashcroft has better product then you ought to say it objectively? This comment could be seen as both a disgruntled employee and an attempt to get business in one move!

I am not trying to put you down as I trust your veiws and your company and prducts but this thread is a request for information, and there are reasons for opinions which would help the requestor make up their own mind.

Marc

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Thats a fair comment Marc :D

My Logic ?

Experience of working there, variable "quality control" / "Stock" / "Fairness on warranty" / "actual admitance of materials used"

I was hoping that Allmakes would turn KAM Around, so far having bought quite a few CW&Ps all ratios / Lockers / shafts / CVs kits etc etc from KAM through my business I was more than dissappointed with

them when Mike R (Redlinemike) here had a warrnaty issue I / he was / were hung out to dry and I stepped in to in effect Honour Mikes Warranty as it felt wrong that Mike wasn't dealt with fairly.

Ashcroft helped me as well, and as a result I am proud to be a approved ashcroft dealer.

No, I am sure Ashcroft does NOT always get things right warranty wise / service wise, butin the 30 years I have know him, mainly as a long term customers I personally and businesswise to date have NEVER had an issue on a warrnaty prob (had a couple as a dealer - 100% customer and myself satisfied), Dave I belived tries to be fair and rerasonable, but "You can never please all the people all the time" sort of thing.

KAM made / make some great products, but, untill they really sort out themselves / products / service / marketing / suport and back up I won't be buying anything from them - period,

I also expalined the same to David when he refused point blank to help, the KAM CW&P had also destroyed the inners of Mikes ARB, again Kam lalalala not listening no warranty go away. David at KAM was adamant, not even a discount off a new gearset !. As a result I sorted the warrnaty and was out of pocket as a result, but still belive it was the right thing to do ...

However I run KAM CVs and stubs and they are superb, as are the Aerospace (Gawd I hate that title) shafts (But I KNOW WHAT THE ONES I HAVE are made of) shafts, again good

Heres a video,

I have since on the Hogmoor day out had an aplogoy from Allmakes Manager re being let down, maybe things are / will change - I have no venom towards KAM quite the reverse, I think the market needs options and alternatives to keep competitors producing better and better stuff....I love the KAM CVs and stubs, others don't but I have some of a small batch of special Stubs, and haven't broken them yet, broke 1 x before, Steve broke 1 x I think, but the idea of a fusible link is in my opinion a winner, and gives a CHOICE between ashcrofts CVs and the KAM Model....if KAM Fail then we lose innovation like this.

It would be good to see allmakes sort KAM Out.

Pricing / Specifications of Products / testing and terst data / Service / Warranty ...and in no particualr order......genuinely hope they do

Maybe the above makes a bit more sense.. ??

Nige

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Cheers Nige, asI am reasonably newish here (few years) I am in between the lomgtermers who understand the history and short answers and the really new comers who won't so I thought I'd prompt for a bigger picture!

Marc

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I've got ashcroft CV's, I was tempted by KAM, but settled on ashcroft, service has been second to none on everything I've had (CV's, 1/2 shafts, and diff LSD, awaiting an LT230 ATB), communication has been superb too.

I agree that there does need to be comparative competition in the market.

for CV's the only ones I know of presently available when you start putting 24 spline diffs in are:

Ashcroft, KAM and great basin rover (Utah).

I had a good discussion with Bill at GBR, and both Ashcroft and GBR (from what I was told) have their CV's made by the same company in the US (would presume from similar materials), hence the cost premium on duty + shipping etc here in the UK. Not sure where KAM have theirs manufactured.

Old discussion here for you to view: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=61760

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^^^^ I am the 'Steve' that worked at KAM with Nige. I still run Kam stuff in my axles, I personally think people ask too much of this stuff, I mean 37" tyres FFS on trucks that weigh 2400kg by the time they have all the other bolt on cr@p. Anyhow, when I worked there some 3-4 years back now, we were seriously trying hard to address issues of quality control, material spec and most of all customer service. I think we were doing ok. Nowadays though I have no idea as Allmakes have taken control so I wouldn't like to comment on quality. It's worth mentioning though that at the time Ashcrofts, Kam and Gbr all came from the same factories. FACT. Ashcroft I know have moved to a far superior material and supplier of crown wheel and pinions, but the whole half shaft thing still makes me chuckle as they're virtually the bloody same!

Steve

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Oh dear .... slight correction on my post above for the wise.... (the passage of time, sleep and an epiphany!)

for CV's the only ones I know of presently available when you start putting 24 spline diffs in are:

Ashcroft, KAM and great basin rover (Utah).

it's not the diffs that goven the CV's but the 1/2 shafts.... if you put a 24 spline diff in the front axle you need an aftermarket 1/2 shafts.

The AEU2522 CV's are quoted by various others as being the strongest landrover factory made / available for the coil sprung (90 / 110) axle. The AEU2522's have 23 spline half shaft matting, hence aftermarket 24/23 1/2 shafts are required.

The aftermarket CV's copy the AEU2522 principle splinewise and change the materials + increase the size of the bell as far as practical to improve the CV strength. then change the stub shaft length to suit the later axles (300 tdi etc) [shorter stub + different hub / drive flange].

KAM seem to have an innovative CV configuration which is modular (choose your CV bell (abs / non abs), choose your stub shaft (long / short), then choose your brass bush to suit your axle variant (think there are 3 from memory) so it allows them to manufacturer fewer complex products (the CV bell + spider etc) and offer a wider range of install configurations.

Ashcroft + GBR make everything one piece and (with ashcrofts) you have three options (non-abs [AEU2522 style - long shaft] , and later 300TDI [short shaft] ABS or non abs).

So you couldn't with an ashcrofts, fit an early axle to a vehicle having ABS [requiring a reluctor], or wanting to fit ABS / traction control to an early axle (without having a separate 60 slot reluctor ring machined), you can with KAM by selecting the right bits (abs cv + longer stubs + right brass bush), but they don't do it in a kit price, hence you need to buy the bits separately, and in my opinion its more expensive than just buying a single piece CV and having a pair of 60 slot reluctor rings made.

GBR did do an AEU2522 style CV (long shaft, 23 spline) with ABS reluctor slots should you have a need for that.

you also get the benefit (if you desire it) of using the stub shafts as fusible shafts, making replacement an easier affair than if you broke a front 1/2 shaft. The stubs are also cheaper than a 1/2 shaft and you only need one spare to cover both sides of the vehicle, where as you would need two 1/2 shafts if you really thought you were likely to break an aftermarket one.

(I've never worked for and received no discounts from any one of the three companies mentioned above, just did a bit of research before I make my purchases, and although I've been very tempted to buy things from KAM in the past never have placed any orders in the end with them, so cannot comment on actual product quality or customer service).

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I've used KAM twice, to source half shafts for my custom Series/RRC disc brake axles and have recived fantastic service both times, I have been given access to the store room (loft) both times.

A possible reason for my experience is that I am doing something different and KAM is interested in developement and new ideas so maybe they get bored once production starts? Ashcroft have looked more like they found a gap in the market that competitors needed filling and are service orientated?

Marc

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No more Mark

kevin mason (KAM) has handed over cobtrol of kam and all products to all makes who bought the bussines

He now runs his parents Farm and i belivd has now no onput or interest in kam or products

Allmakes are now kam.

i sldo have heard ghat allmakes are looking to rationalise the kam producg range and sone products will be changed / dropped /improved...

kam is now based at all makes oxfotd

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Using your initials is always risky. I work at GDM and Graham now runs our competitor company after this and that happened eons ago. Makes you think :)

I just did a "rationalise the product range" last year. If you have a set of products who's function/purpose only exist in the head of someone who isn't there you are kind of backed into a corner on that one. Ours has been a win, as it made more sense to the customers, so it doesn't have to bad.

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