smokeyone Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Problems started a while back - out on a dual carriageway with the P38 - very loud metal sounding screatching from the engine - engine oil and alternator lights came on. Pulled over called breakdown/recovery - the chap thought it was one of the serpintine idler pulleys... Recovery home - next day, started the engine - alternator light now goes out but oil warning light stays on unless you rev the engine. However no very loud screatching noise...the noise has gone... Plenty of oil in the engine and have now connected an oil pressure gauge to the block - almost no oil pressure and if it's any help the top of the engine under the oil filler cap seems to have less oil sloshing around. By co-incidence unless someone knows better the alternator light now stays on and it is not charging the battery - I have tested it - and the power steering seems to be behaving oddly - first it's okay then seems heavy for a moment or two. My next thought would be to take off the sump to see if the oil pick up pipe is blocked but maybe someone has a better plan.... Thanks for any help... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrr47 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Does the engine have an oil cooler? Does it run through the radiator? Does the power steering have a oil cooler in the rad as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Screeching sounds like a bearing has given up badly somewhere, couple this with no oil pressure I suggest you have lots your big ends or crank bearings. I expect the screeching would come back if you got the oil up to proper operating temperature again, and it has thinned out. I would drop the oil, that way you can see if there are any lumps of metal in it, or in the case of a faulty radiator half full of water. Either way an engine with little oil pressure isn't going to be a happy bunny the more you run it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeyone Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 Good thought and thank you for the suggestion - update from my friend while he looked under the bonnet with the engine running and I turned the steering wheel - the serpintine belt stopped running when I turn the wheel which explains the alternator light and odd steering - has a pin sheared off somewhere - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Sounds like you've sheared something close to the nose of the crank and the crank-pulley isn't being driven. The pulley spinning on the nose of the crank could explain the shrieking. I've never delved into a P38 Diesel but if the oil-pump is perhaps driven off a gear/chainwheel associated with the front pulley too... and the front pulley's no longer positively clamping said chainwheel to the crank... it could explain your low oil-pressure as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeyone Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 Sounds promising as I understand the oil pump is driven off the crank but I believe you have to remove the rad and the a/c unit to reach it - but maybe I do not have to take the sump off after all - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 A bit of research shows the oil pump is a gear-inside-a-gear encircling the nose of the crank. I'm betting you're going to find the big pulley on the crank-nose has come loose, the Woodruff-key which is meant to stop the pulley spinning on the crank has broken up... and since this key also provides positive drive to the oil-pump gear... Could be an easy fix - could be an engine-writeoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 pop the plastic cover under the front of the engine - its a faff getting it out of the steering rods , de-tension and remove the drive belt then check the crank pulley - it does sound like it's loose. Was there any vibrations from the engine when it happened ? Cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeyone Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 Thanks all for the advice, will investigate further and report back - no vibration from the engine when it first happened - all seemed fine - oh by the way - the engine is supposed to be 90,000 miles old - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Fingers crossed then that it isn't kippered then.... I wouldn't be running it any more until I found out what was going on in the front end, and I would still drop the oil (not take the sump off) and check it for lumps and bits of bearing material -you will want to change it at the very least anyways if the pulley has come loose and you have been running the engine with no oil pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Just a guess based on a very unhappy experience that I had due to an error on my part, check the crankshaft pulley, (harmonic ballancer) these are secured by the crank bolt and a tiny little woodruff key that has been known to let go, if this happens the pulley just spins on the crank and destroys it, if my guess is right you are up for a new crankshaft and crankshaft pulley (as I was) it may also explain why you have minimal oil pressure. If you do need to replace the crank, do yourself a big favour and have a reputable machine shop replace the two woodruff keys in the new crankshaft (one is for the crank pulley, the other rear keyway is the tining belt drive cog) with a single keyway and supply you with a key to suit - it will never fail again and for the life of me, seeing as both keys are in the same line, why LR never had the one keyway instead of two seperate small woodruff keyways. If its any comfort, Nissan Patrols straight six engines suffer this failure on a regular basis, their pulley is twice the size of ours and almost identical tiny woodruff key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeyone Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 Still figuring out how to get to the pulley, the rad is supposed to just slide out but after years in situ could end up breaking it - thinking about taking the whole front rad/a/c condensor and oil cooler out as one unit. If it turns out I am in need of a new crank, still following your advice about getting one keyway installed, any thoughts on changing the engine over to a bmw 3 litre - the engine is supposed to be virtually the same except for the 2.5 - 3.0 litre difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeyone Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 Just a short update but have now got the pulley off - the holding nut I undid with my fingers, bad sign - just a tiny piece of woodruff key left, say 3mm by 3mm, wonder where the rest is - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 buy some cheap digi vernier calipers and measure the crank stub along the length for dia , any tapering and it's prob scrap - same with the inside dia of the pulley . If it measures ok - crank dia parallel and pretty much the same size as the pulley bore , which must also be parallel then I'd suggest bolting it up with a new key and see what you have ? cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Rem\ember that the woodruff key is NOT there to take the drive, just to align bits, and keep them stable. It's the clamp pressure from the nut that takes the drive stress, but if this comes loose then the woodruff key gets it, and fails. Pay attention to specified torque settings, and any specified liquid locking or locking tabs the manuals mention. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Not too sure that I agree with David, while the torque settings are very important the keyway is there to prevent the pulley from doing what it has done to your crank, certainly he is right about the loaction of the timing belt cog though. Okay, oddly enough a new Land Rover 300 TDi crankshaft is not that expensive, not when compared to say a Toyota or Nissan. Stick with the engine you have, the devil you know is easier to manage than the devil you dont. Pull the engine out, flip it over and remove the sump, replace the crank, main and big end bearings and oil pump (my guess is thats cactus as well although the bits of woodruff key could not enter the oil system as they will be some where in side the timing cover, they could well hace caused the teeth on the timing belt to get chewed - a remote possibility but ......... replace the front and rear oil seals, timing belt etc and assuming that the cylinder bores are okay (you can check them with an internal micrometer once the crank is out) you will have what amounts to a brand new engine, what you're going through is exactly what happened to my engine. The parts I replaced where:- Crankshaft, -- machined with a single keyway. Main bearings Big end bearings. Front and rear oil seals. Oil pump. Timing belt. Outer crankshaft seal. Crankshaft Pulley (Harmonic ballancer) Clutch plate. Clutch release bearing. My cylinder bores were as new, no work needed and the re-built engine has now done well over 280,000 kilometres without missing a beat. I never removed the head, fuel injection pump, alternator etc as there was no need to as all the repairs were done from the bottom with the engine on a cheap Aldi engine stand and inverted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 One further word(s) of advice, get your supplier to supply the new crankshaft with matched main and big-end bearings and make sure that they are a reputable make, again, I would advise you stick with LR genuine parts, and even then use a strip of guage tape, torque the main bearing caps and big end caps down correctly and then remove the caps and check the clearances as shown by the compressed guage tape, guage tape is very inexpensive but there isnt a better way of checking that the clearances are right. These are in the RAVE manual. With just the mains installed you should be able to easily turn the crank by hand. Good luck and lets know how you get on, use the right grade of Locktite where the manual requires it, it's not a massive job and if you have a reasonable set of tools including a good acurate torque wrench and an engine stand you wont have a problem, take your time, be patient and you will find it satisfying knowing that its been done correctly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 My story was this, Julie and I were just departing from Inaminka in the Simpson Desert 4 years past when the steering became heavy and the alternator light came on, we pulled over and on inspection I noticed that the crank pulley seemed to be a little loose, on removal - which was a real bitch as the threads on the crank bolt were torn and to remove it I had to take off the starter motor and jam the flywheel with a tyre lever to lock the engine- the woodruff key had all but disintregated and what was left had chewed a lump of of the crankshaft and all but destroying the keyway, as it happened I had a bolt in my spares kit that had a head almost the same diameter as the woodruff key (once I'd filed it down, and this was all dome on the side of the track while Julie set up camp for the night) I then hacksawed the bolt off the filled head and fitted it at the same time filling in the damaged portion of the crank with plastic steel, the bolt, once I'd reserected it with a thread file was replaced with LOTS of locktite and the following morning we were back on the road. Three days and 2000 kilometers after we got home - and in heavy traffic - my bodged up repairs gave way - a tow truck and an expensive trip home was required, and the same re-build that you are facing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeyone Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Thanks again for all the advice, crank seems undamaged, going out today to see if I can buy a new woodruff key but earlier in the thread mention was made that there are two keys .............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 sounds promising . The crank timing chain sprocket will have a key too , if everything else looks ok as you say then a new key and refit with some threadlock to the correct torque and try it ? It does sound like your quick reaction may well have saved you a lot of spannering and money ...you're probably not that far from me , pm if you need a hand cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeyone Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 Thanks for the offer of help - had to order a key so may have to wait a few days - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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