BogMonster Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 Just been reading the Sept issue of LRO which arrived the other day and spotted a review of hand winches. Not expecting a great deal (this of course being an LRO product review which mostly just tells you which of the advertisers sells each one...) I turned to page 142.... as I can't easily fit a rear winch to the 90 I have been considering getting a hand winch as an alternative to walking and also something I can use in different vehicles if required. I did learn something interesting though. Look closely at the five different 1600kg winches on test (the sixth one is a baby Tirfor). Take the Tirfor TS16 and the Black Rat. Hmmmmm looks absolutely identical except the Black Rat has been painted black and has a different label on it Then the First Four GP1600, T-Max and Lifting & Crane one. All 3 are exactly the same thing down to every last screw and casting, except for the label and paintwork! And if I am not much mistaken the mid sized JetRope sold by Alfred Murray is also exactly the same unit... Bit of badge engineering or what? Six "different" winches are actually two ... but some serious differences in price! Scorpion sell the Tirfor for £487 according to the article, if you don't mind chiselling the badge off and having a ratty black one it'll cost you just £264. Bit pricey for a name change The other ones vary a lot too from £225 for the First Four down to £125 for the L&C version Just shows that it pays to shop around! Has anybody broken any of them? I might get the T-Max version as I have some dealings with Bearmach so can probably get a better price than the one published and the shipping will be easier, but if not I think it'll be off to Lifting & Crane. It's not a lot of money for something that just might be a bacon-saver at some point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 I did wonder whether id would be viable to fit a small chain-saw engine or similar to a small winch for this kind of application. You can start a 2 stroke in either direction and so long as it has a centripetal clutch - should be fairly controlable. The big plus about something like this is it could be made quite light weight and doesn't need electric. I saw a couple of people at Slindon effect a very good recovery using a hand winch where their electric winch was pointing in the wrong direction and there was no way to get another vehicle into a good location without using 4 or 5 snatch blocks. It made me reconsider their usefulness. Just a thought! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NegevLandRover Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 Alpine and cliff SAR teams use two stroke powered winches, in fact two types. One is cable on drum and the other is a capstan type where the rescue rope is passed around a capstan that is driven by the engine. The ones we have here are rated for a 500 kg lift load but I am sure that one could easily change the clutch on the capstan and therby raise the load rating. So they are out there. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted September 10, 2005 Author Share Posted September 10, 2005 Interesting idea Si - if you get any further on that thought let me know Dad has always had an old Tirfor on the farm. I think it is the T516 model (though an older version of the 1600kg one in the write up) though all labelling has long since departed! It is amazing what you can pull with them if you have enough people to wear out - I remember when I was very young, our biggest 4WD Ursus tractor (weighs about 7 tons) fell into a peat bog (literally) when cutting peat on a peat bank with a McConnell Arm, the bank gave way under the nearside wheel and the whole lot slid into the bottom. After various unsuccessful attempts using other machines they eventually got it out using the Tirfor, which I remember was anchored to a couple of other tractors and a Land Rover all tied together! I think there were three of the gang swinging on the handle and I seem to remember it just about killed all of them but it got the tractor out They also last for ever - this old Tirfor has been on the farm for as long as I can remember and has always had the same cable etc. and no maintenance worth mentioning. They probably don't make them like they used to though! Adam, David Bowyer sells a petrol engined capstan winch, I guess that is the sort of thing you mean? Quite expensive though, and a bit big to carry for occasional use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajlorton Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 I couldn't afford an electric winch (cue the violins) so bought a 2nd-hand tirfor for £50. It's a massive beastie with 11mm cable. It's heavy and hard work to use, but it has saved my bacon a couple of times. I was particularly impressed when it recovered my 90 which was resting on it's axles. Top bit of kit that appears to be pretty much indestrucable. p.s. first post following migration from a different forum. Hello all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 i have a trifor that i always carry in mine, 2nd hand £60 i think it was in bloody good nick as well. its resident in a rear locker with cable and handle always ready to go and required ltd maintenance. good for side pulls on the wagon, and thats in addition to the xd9000 and husky fitted!! well worth having and as prev mentioned transferable. just amek sure its got a nice long handle!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 I saw a Tirfor once that had been fitted with a self-reciprocating hydraulic ram - such that the ram cranked the bit the handle attaches too. Add a load of tubing, a mile-marker valve block and some quick release couplings and you have a fairly portable winch for the unfit! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve H Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Bogbuster, back to your original point, I think the Black Rat is a copy of the Tirfor TS16, most probably made in China, I've seen several similar "badged " versions of this, several of the big 4X4 stores that advertise in the Aussie mags have their own colored copies. I've not heard anything too detrimental about them but one of the large suppliers to industry in NZ stopped carrying one of these copies because of hassles they'd had with them, they now carry the other one, same as the Lifting & Crane one. I'm not saying that all the copies came from the same source but I believe that the Black Rat is a painted version of the Beaver Tuff Pull which in its earlier incarnation was the one that caused hassles. As always, stand to be corrected on this. Cheers, Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 That's a thought...no way I can afford a 'proper' winch anytime soon, but a hand one? I only need something for rescueing myself when I screw up (so not very often, obviously ). Have to look into this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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