Diseasel vs Petrol

[reb78]

I've been considering chopping the D2 and our 5 series in for one vehicle for a while now. For fuel economy reasons I always end up looking at diesels and have considered an l322 tdv8, d2/4 tdv6 and also the range rover sport tdv8. What's always put me off with the latter two are the scare stories of body off jobs for some engine work. I'm not sure the l322 suffers the same issue.

Then I got to thinking, do petrol versions suffer from the same difficulties of access for engine jobs? Are the petrol engines reliable? Easier to work on hath an the diesels?

I'd still have to consider fuel economy, but the often cheaper secondhand prices for petrol variants might eat up some of the fuel running cost differences.

[need4speed]

In my opinion the petrols are more reliable than the diesels. In general that is. I know there are exceptions.

Economy wise i would forget the TDV8. The TDV6 might be worth considering though.

Like everything in life, its a compromise. Theres pros and cons to each of them. It really depends on what the vehicle is used for and how it tends to be driven..

Edit: the performance of modern diesels is great, but it comes at a cost - they just dont give the real world fuel consumption figures you expect from a diesel. They are also pretty complex.

[elbekko]

I've helped take the engine out of a petrol D3, it wasn't too bad a job, but also not as easy as on the earlier models. I do wonder how much work a body-off actually is, seeing as they're practically designed to do that these days.

You can pick one up with LPG, but they do seem to be quite prone to valve wear on LPG without extra lube systems.

The TDV8/6 is a beautiful engine though, goes like stink.

[Daan]

you haven't actually said what you want to do with the car, so that's would be a start. I am a diesel man myself, so that makes for a short conversation...

There is rumour of petrol dropping to £1 again, so that's also a consideration. but, I suspect diesel will follow suit, so the difference between petrol and diesel won't change. For my use, I don't need anything big or fancy, so its a little diesel car for me, that I fill up once a month. I use the landy when I need it or when I feel like it. I presume you still have your 110?

[Nigelw]

I think you are likely to buy it and try and keep it forever Richard, Petrol is the way forward, TD = good resale as almost everyone else is thinking the same as far as economy differences between the two fuel types, but it does also depend on your mileage!!!!

I think we are both going through the same thoughts at the same time, thinking about the same vehicles and the same fueling ideas.

I too have been thinking D3 L322 RRS, and yeah the scare stories are out there, but there are so any on the roads!!! I have seen 3 in the flesh that are now scrapped for nothing more than uneconomical to repair with electrical issues, but, and this is the "BUT", I only had this realization a few days ago, this is uneconomical based on LR servicing and labour charges, LR gen parts and diagnostics, the current owners are the wannabees and could afford to buy it and just about run it and beggar all, much like all those who bought RRCs and killed the engines through never changing the oil, those who bought Discoveries and did the sae and litterally ran them into the ground, so there is in my mind plenty of scope for these to be repaired at home. It just gets a bit more involving and more clean as you can identify the problems through the fault codes.

[Chicken Drumstick]

Diesel is fine, but modern diesels are not like the simple Tdi's of old. Far more complex.

Also diesels are still the lesser performers, no matter how die hard a diesel fan you are.

Good mpg from modern CRD diesels is cruising mpg. Even the 2.7 TDV6 can muster up very good mpg figures. However round town or if you give it a lot of right foot action, you may find it's only marginally better on fuel than a petrol V8 alternative and the diesel will still be slower.

[reb78]

you haven't actually said what you want to do with the car, so that's would be a start. I am a diesel man myself, so that makes for a short conversation...

There is rumour of petrol dropping to £1 again, so that's also a consideration. but, I suspect diesel will follow suit, so the difference between petrol and diesel won't change. For my use, I don't need anything big or fancy, so its a little diesel car for me, that I fill up once a month. I use the landy when I need it or when I feel like it. I presume you still have your 110?

I didn't really think use, other than intended mileage was that important. The petrol variants are all pretty much capable as their diesel equivalents really aren't they? If you mean do I really need a land rover, then I suppose I don't, but I want one as oppose to keeping the 5 series.

The 110 is going nowhere, so that will do the mucky stuff, dirty dogs, farm work etc. Either vehicle may end up towing a horse box. Mileage these days will probably be around 12k per year in the 110 and another 12k in whatever the second car is. The other car is supposed to be the smarter more refined one. We kept three cars as we were living in different places and needed one everyday, but now my other half and I are back in the same place so if one breaks down it's not such a catastrophe.

I'm potentially most taken with a D3/4. Less blingy than the other two in my opinion, but I do like the l322.

[reb78]

I think you are likely to buy it and try and keep it forever Richard, Petrol is the way forward, TD = good resale as almost everyone else is thinking the same as far as economy differences between the two fuel types, but it does also depend on your mileage!!!!

I think we are both going through the same thoughts at the same time, thinking about the same vehicles and the same fueling ideas.

I too have been thinking D3 L322 RRS, and yeah the scare stories are out there, but there are so any on the roads!!! I have seen 3 in the flesh that are now scrapped for nothing more than uneconomical to repair with electrical issues, but, and this is the "BUT", I only had this realization a few days ago, this is uneconomical based on LR servicing and labour charges, LR gen parts and diagnostics, the current owners are the wannabees and could afford to buy it and just about run it and beggar all, much like all those who bought RRCs and killed the engines through never changing the oil, those who bought Discoveries and did the sae and litterally ran them into the ground, so there is in my mind plenty of scope for these to be repaired at home. It just gets a bit more involving and more clean as you can identify the problems through the fault codes.

It's the fact that you could end up spending 15k (and more) and then end up with something that costs similar to repair that scares me the most I suppose! I was chatting to the chap who does a bit of car work for me when I don't have time (just a decent family run independent garage) and he had a d3 in that needed a new engine. The owners were looking at having to spend the value of the car if it was running in order to get it running again! Just crazy.

You are right though, I think I would keep long term - I seem to do it with some cars.

[reb78]

Diesel is fine, but modern diesels are not like the simple Tdi's of old. Far more complex.

Also diesels are still the lesser performers, no matter how die hard a diesel fan you are.

Good mpg from modern CRD diesels is cruising mpg. Even the 2.7 TDV6 can muster up very good mpg figures. However round town or if you give it a lot of right foot action, you may find it's only marginally better on fuel than a petrol V8 alternative and the diesel will still be slower.

Good point about the around town economy. Even with my 520d, I struggle to get into the 20mpg mark just around town. It's not good for the engine/dpf either.

The other point I have in the back of my mind is the current spate of anti diesel press. I wonder if any of our vehicles are at risk of being banned from cities in the near future?

[Chicken Drumstick]

I'm potentially most taken with a D3/4. Less blingy than the other two in my opinion, but I do like the l322.

D4 has to be the most blingy looking of the lot.

[reb78]

D4 has to be the most blingy looking of the lot.

Guess that's just a matter of opinion. RRS is probably lowest on my list of desirables of the three though.

[need4speed]

.

[dirtyninety]

our 3.6 RRS tdv8 will return 40mpg on the motorway and about 28mpg locally driving.

our tdv6 disco3 returns about 36mpg on motorway and 26mpg locally.

my 2.4 tdci 90, returns 18mpg on motorway and I don't want to work out local driving.

(18mpg over a 70 mile stretch of the M1 yesterday, service station to service station, most of it in 6th gear, most of the miles were 50mph average speed check)

[Chicken Drumstick]

Guess that's just a matter of opinion. RRS is probably lowest on my list of desirables of the three though.

I think that personal desirables isn't not the same as being blingy or not. All the silver shiny urban trim on the D4 -- the bling facelift tweaks over the D3 make the D4 well, blingy.

Not saying you have to like one over the other or anything like that.

[need4speed]

our 3.6 RRS tdv8 will return about 28mpg locally driving.

Your doing well there. A few over on FFRR would love to be getting that.

[Chicken Drumstick]

our 3.6 RRS tdv8 will return 40mpg on the motorway and about 28mpg locally driving.

our tdv6 disco3 returns about 36mpg on motorway and 26mpg locally.

my 2.4 tdci 90, returns 18mpg on motorway and I don't want to work out local driving.

(18mpg over a 70 mile stretch of the M1 yesterday, service station to service station, most of it in 6th gear, most of the miles were 50mph average speed check)

Joking aside, if you got only 18mpg over 70 miles doing 50mph in 6th in a TDci 90, then there is something very wrong with it, or you left the handbrake on.

I drive a 3.5 factory V8 on carbs 90 that would do 19mpg+ under the same conditions.

[Retroanaconda]

Joking aside, if you got only 18mpg over 70 miles doing 50mph in 6th in a TDci 90, then there is something very wrong with it, or you left the handbrake on.

I drive a 3.5 factory V8 on carbs 90 that would do 19mpg+ under the same conditions.

I'm guessing it was a double typo and supposed to be 28mpg? As you say 18mpg is far far too low for a Tdci 90, especially on the motorway, unless towing?

Back in topic, I would go for a D3 for that sort of use - they are a very nice car if you can deal with the higher repair costs if/when things go wrong.

[missingsid]

I am not convinced that the body off servicing is responsible for the high service costs as they are designed to come off are they not? it just sounds bad.

It is true though that some cars are very expensive to service which makes them cheap to buy but expensive to run.

When the Maseratti coupe came out they halved in value at the end of two years, norm was three to four, so why was that, servicing cost was £1K per service (my M5, pretty much as fast was only £350) and a min of one service per year or x miles (can't remember) but it meant two services a year for me. I spoke to a garage selling them why they were dumpped at two years old, Maseratti offered first two years free servicing after that even wealthy people dumpped them! I didn't buy one as I couldn't afford the servicing.

When looking at affordability it all has to be considered.

Marc.

[Lewis]

Body off isn't that bad, if you have a two post ramp and an air gun you'll be done in an hour. That said, it's been 8 years at least since I did one so it would probably take me longer these days.

Body off is for d3/4 and RRS, L322 is monocoque so the body does not come off

[dirtyninety]

Joking aside, if you got only 18mpg over 70 miles doing 50mph in 6th in a TDci 90, then there is something very wrong with it, or you left the handbrake on.

I drive a 3.5 factory V8 on carbs 90 that would do 19mpg+ under the same conditions.

I'm guessing it was a double typo and supposed to be 28mpg? As you say 18mpg is far far too low for a Tdci 90, especially on the motorway, unless towing?

Back in topic, I would go for a D3 for that sort of use - they are a very nice car if you can deal with the higher repair costs if/when things go wrong.

Absolutely no typos! My mum drives the RRS and she drives very gently

My TDCI 90 is an 08 plate with 26k on the clock. It has 235/75/16 MT's on mods, a straight through and decat. It absolutely drinks diesel.

It doesnt black smoke or give any error codes, only the usual injector rail high pressure one when its cold.

I knew it was pretty bad, which is why i did a services to services fill up to do my mpg

[nicksmelly]

I have a LWB RWD Transit 350 converted to a motorhome weighing about 3 tons with the 2.4 TDCi 140 engine in it (Same as Defender) It's got satellite dish, TV aerial, chimney and solar panels on the roof, so not the most aerodynamic - I get 32 - 35mpg on the motorway doing >70mph, so I think there is something very wrong with your 90 if you are only getting 18mpg

[reb78]

Maybe I asked the question wrongly.

For the home mechanic (no lift on the drive) would servicing be cheaper and/or easier on a v8 petrol compared to the diesels offered in the RRS, l322 or d3/4?

I would obviously have to consider some sort of diagnostic kit (have nanocom for the d2)

[miketomcat]

Absolutely no typos! My mum drives the RRS and she drives very gently

My TDCI 90 is an 08 plate with 26k on the clock. It has 235/75/16 MT's on mods, a straight through and decat. It absolutely drinks diesel.

It doesnt black smoke or give any error codes, only the usual injector rail high pressure one when its cold.

I knew it was pretty bad, which is why i did a services to services fill up to do my mpg

If that tyres size is correct your Speedo may be out as surely it should have 235/85x16's on

Mike

[DavidW]

I get about 28mpg average from my TDV6 D3. Servicing (done by indy specialists on our everyday cars) is definitely a more expensive that the two 530i BMWs I had previously. More goes wrong too.

Most specialists can do the to timing belts without the body off nowadays which makes it a bit cheaper, mines not had the body off yet yet but has had most of the common failures you will read about.

When it's all working it's a fantastic car, so much so I can't get rid despite the costs to run it.

David

[g&t]

As I trawl through the many posts regarding LR products, from P38A's to today's offerings from the company, the one phrase I have the most problem with is ''it's great when it's running'' or similar. I've owned various LR's over the years, through series 2A's & 3's (all petrol) to four RRC's (all V8's) & I've always expected them to start & run at any time in all weather conditions. Through my own efforts years ago & an indie's these days I've been very largely successful in that quest, with breakdowns or non-starts only a rare occurrence & certainly no more than any other vehicle. I still think it strange when reading someone's post that they are relieved to have completed a long trip, often in a vehicle a lot younger than my current 27 year old RRC, ''without any problem'' Anyway, having had my say I wish everyone on here a very merry Christmas & a happy motoring, in whatever you drive, New Year.