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Poscott

Disco or Land Cruiser

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Okay, here's the quandary.

After my love affair with a 98 plate diesel Freelander, I am opting for something bigger.

After the fun of Landy ownership I am contemplating a swap to a Toyota and their legendary reliability.

My heart still lies with the Brit option though.

Yes the Disco will keep going regardless of bits dropping off, but the jap tank will do so without shedding bits.

You thoughts please.

Paul

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A new Cruiser vs a new Discovery, or older models?

Your observation is probably true of all ages, but a D3/D4 is a completely different proposition for complexity. I'm currently considering the new Shogun/new LC2 route myself, for that reason, as a D4 really isn't a replacement for my old D2 that I would be happy or confident to keep for another 12 years!

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I had an older LC Derivative, a Hilux Surf (circa 1996) - very similar running gear and the same engine as the LC Colorado, same gearbox but switchable transfer box, very similar bar the body. It was like it was made out of granite - it was indestructable, in over 100K miles I put on it all it ever needed were minor consumables (track rod ends, steering rack bushes). I would have kept it but it was LEZ non-compliant due to the way it was imported :(

I went from that to a LandCruiser LC5 (the 120 series, 2003ish-2010ish). It was a bag of **** compared. It didn't have the build quality, the injectors needed changing at 80K miles at a cost of over £2K (under warranty, thankfully), there was a big recall for injector seals causing engines to coke up and kill themselves, the auto box started to make strange clicking noises and the rear air suspension went very bouncy, the AC packed up, etc etc...

I may have been unlucky and had a dog, but I didn't have the confidence in it... If you are looking at that era, check it out well, make sure the injector seal recall has been done, check out the auto box and don't get one that has rear air suspension (LC5)!

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I like Toyota's, but I'm not convinced they are truly more durable than a Land Rover. I know plenty of LR's that have done big mileage and I know of Toyota's which have had issues and problems.

I say drive both and see what you prefer.

The biggest plus for the Landy is the owners community in the UK, far bigger than any other brand of 4x4.

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I think the OP's comment "legendary reliability" is just that 'Legend', all manufacturers suffer issues or faults, it seems to me some manufactures seem to hold on to their reputation whatever, Toyota were top of the JD power survey for a few years awhile ago and along with VW still hold their quality, reliability reputation despite being over taken by other manufacturers, look at Mercedes, after the merger with Chrysler they went down hill rapidly, expensive rot box's, yet in the general public's eye still a premium brand. You see it even more in countries like Thailand where Merc's hold an almost God like status.

Whatever make, there are plenty of people out there who are only too willing to share their tales of woe regarding a manufacturer.

Are you posing this question on a LC forum as well? Doubt you'd get such a balanced view.

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Appreciate all the feedback folks.

Cars I'm looking at are older models.

Drove LC's of all ages in Oz and many of them were monster milers with up to 500K kms on the clock.

Am guessing parts availability will be better over here on the Disco though.

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I heard tons of the myths and legends garb, land rovers are supposed to be unreliable, toyota are supposed to be bomb proof?

Why is it that LR sells so many cars? Why do the LR buyers do so in spite of the "bomb proof" Toyota?

Buy what suits you after test driving a few models of each that satisfy your criteria, only you know what you are expecting from the new vehicle, only you will be responsible for covering the costs of repairs and wear and tear.

Any vehicle can wrack up hundreds of thousands of Kilometers if it serviced and looked after, the owners who buy and sell them with the "these motors go forever" often neglect the real reason why, maintenance.

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reliability depends on maintenance,

my girlfriend cant make any car last, she "forgets" check the oil level or even service them and thinks everything should last the life of the car and if there is a noise its ok because it isnt making her crash...

naturally she has endless issues with it.

(back when i had the time(i.e. before her :ph34r::hysterical: im glad she isnt on here!) i never had my series break down on me once. this was because i paid attention and carried out routine checks and preventative maintenance.

now i have a 96% reliable truck as i let everything build up and have a weekend stint every now and then.

buying a land cruiser (or any other car for that matter( purely on their reliability reputation doesent make sense to me as there is no guarantee that the particular one you buy will be reliable!

take my chevrolet lacetti for example. 09 plate, needs 4 shocks, (total of £400 parts, and i need a decent spring compressor to do the job) it needs a water pump even though intervals (timing belt) state that it should be done every other timing belt. (wish i had done it on the firs one now) the brakes "clack" even though i renewed all disks and pads less than 3 months before i stopped driving it.

and it was as cheap to run my series 3 as it is to run that.

mind you it did stick like buggery round the twisties!!!

edit: on the mileage front, a mate had a green 110 van with a factory 200TDi in it, he sold it with a genuine 680+000 miles on the clock and the most work it ever had was timing belts, a water pump and a few wheelbearings other than standard servicing and checks,

in esscence, any car can be reiliable or unreliable, it depends on how much you are prepared to look after it

just my 2p

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Mechanical reliability aside, Toyota Land Cruisers are built using stronger better quality materials than Discoveries. In the UK climate they rot at about the same rate though ;)

The above statement comes from 5 years working in product development and Land Rover, and 4 years working for a Specialist vehicle converter on Toyota products used in the third world

Bogmonster, forget the Shogun, look at a Toyota Fortuner instead, they should be available in your part of the world. Having had both in bits they Toyota is the better car, even the dash plastics feel quality, whilst the Mitsubishi felt cheap/weak

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When I decided to retire and spend the rest of my days touring Oz I did a considerable amount of research on the best 4wd available while recovering from a quadruple heart by-pass.

The bottom line was, that for long distance touring the Toyota Series 80 Land Cruiser was unsurpassed, 6 cylinders, 4.2 litres - mechanical injection (no nasty electronics) turbo charged and almost bullet - proof transmission and an almost exact copy of the LR Disco coil spring suspension.

The only problem with the Land Cruiser was

a.) the prices of good condition second hand units were beyond what I was prepared to pay and

b.) they propensity to use, in my opinion, excessive amounts of fuel.

So I got a 1998 series 1 Disco with its "problematic" 4 cylinder 2.5 litre engine. It has for the past 8 years been a constant "work in progress" -- as in a conversion from auto to manual, autos are better but I can fix a manual --- as there is no perfect 4WD, you have to be prepared to work on it and rectify its faults and, more importantly, adapt and modify it to your requirements, the Disco is slow, over heavy when fully loaded for touring (over 3.5 tonnes) but is now super reliable.

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Isn't the vehicle sold in the UK as the Landcruiser actually a Prado and not the proper full size 200 series that the rest of the world gets.

A Prado (Landcruiser) is a lower class of vehicle compare to the D4 and the 200 series is the equivalent. My brother has a 200 series Sahara 4.5TDV8 and it is a fine alternative to the D4 HSE - strengths and weaknesses on bot sides.

Prado http://www.toyota.com.au/prado-interactive

Landcruiser 200 http://www.toyota.com.au/landcruiser-200

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Unable to help you there. In Australia the Toyota Series 80 Landcruiser was generally MY1999 - MY2003. The models sold here were /are easily recognisable by their dual twin rectangular headlights, sliding rear side windows, coil spring suspension and the engine and transmission as I described above.

In Oz an automatic wasn't available, initially 4 speed and later 5 speed manual only (with high/low transfer gearbox), but they were full time 4wd as against the same MY Toyota 2 door Troop Carrier that retained the manual locking front wheel hubs and had leaf sprung rear suspension but the "Troopy" had a twin fuel tank option that gave it 180 litres total that wasn't available in the Landcruiser (75 litres) due to the latter having rear doors.

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Just to update folks. I'm looking at older model vehicles. Its a second car. Have previously had a 57 plate disco xs and loved it. If I could afford, this would be the choice but cash doesn't allow anything over £3.5k and I do like older models as they have more character. If I could afford a good J40 that would be a dream but they go for huge money in the UK. So its either a disco, LC, shogun, or trooper.

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troopers are the reliable if agricultural option. ive driven one offroad. they're quite good.

but i'd have a disco. by far the best allrounder of them all imho.

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Unable to help you there. In Australia the Toyota Series 80 Landcruiser was generally MY1999 - MY2003. The models sold here were /are easily recognisable by their dual twin rectangular headlights, sliding rear side windows, coil spring suspension and the engine and transmission as I described above.

In Oz an automatic wasn't available, initially 4 speed and later 5 speed manual only (with high/low transfer gearbox), but they were full time 4wd as against the same MY Toyota 2 door Troop Carrier that retained the manual locking front wheel hubs and had leaf sprung rear suspension but the "Troopy" had a twin fuel tank option that gave it 180 litres total that wasn't available in the Landcruiser (75 litres) due to the latter having rear doors.

No the LC80 was 1990- 1997, ugly oversized boxes of poo they are. I have never liked any of the jap w4d's, they just so generic and really dont stand out from each other.

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Funny as I always saw the Disco I II body as a copy of a Shogun!

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Isn't the vehicle sold in the UK as the Landcruiser actually a Prado and not the proper full size 200 series that the rest of the world gets.

We get both - the Prado (imported) / Colorado / LC120 series which are shogun/trooper sized. The 'full fat' LC is sold as an Amazon here, possibly the new ones are just badged Land Cruiser though...

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Funny as I always saw the Disco I II body as a copy of a Shogun!

Always thought it was closer to a J70. There's so much cross pollination in car design. The original RR bears more than a passing resemblance to a 60's Jeep Wagoneer - the overall outline, the swage lines in the side panelling, the two part folding tailgate, even the horizontal grill. Still, like the Disco and it's peers, the RR manages to be better looking ;)

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I think the only car to deviate from the generalised Jeep styling was the LM002. Closest modern example of evolutionary styling would be the Evoque.

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Very interesting tread....must say in my over 20 years with my Land Rovers never had relaibility concerns.

Just done a road trip in my Perentie through Land Cruiser Country (Queensland) and stoped more than five times to assist Land cruisers of all variants and all modern vehicles and experianced the whole spectrum of concerns from forgetting to refit the radiator cap to blown turbos, gearbox failures, diff failures. So for the guys that really think Toyota is so superriour think again and this was in a 4674km trip, emagine what I will find around Australia trip....lol

The secret was already revealed.......maintenance!!

And the best advice was already given too, test drive the vehicles you are looking at and buy what suits you.

I always buy the vehicle that chooses me.....but that is another story

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Hangover, you may well be right but my friends petrol engine series 80 is badged with a compliance plate as being made in 2001, that said the actual appearance of a 4wd should be considered (in my opinion) secondary to it's performance and reliability, the cost of Toyota spares aside they have an enviable reputation for reliability and last for years . Try driving out in the bush and see how many Land Rovers you come across as against the amount of Land Cruisers, I'd estimate a ratio of around 100:1 given that the cost of a Defender tray back isn't that much more than a Land Cruiser ute you have to ask why so many are sold despite the higher fuel consumption, the reason obviously is that they are built like a brick sh--t house and are virtually unbreakable. When all is said and done, Defender, Discovery Land Cruiser and Nissan Patrol all have the same silhouette - a concrete block with a house brick on top.

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Rangy, agreed, I cannot stress too much the need for preparation and maintenance when driving out into the bush, whenever I travel into the bush and camp near a service station with a hoist I always arrange to have a "spanner check" carried out on the underside. I'm reminded of a observation made by Len Beadell who, in the late 60's came across a Mack truck pulled over on the side of the track with a blown diff, the guy had been there three weeks and had arranged for the parts to be delivered from Adelaide, 2 months later Len passed the same guy who was still there and was still very nonchalant about the delivery of his parts !!!!!

On our recent trip over the Simpson Desert we stopped for a "Britz" Land Cruiser driven by a French couple who had a flat tyre, the spare had next to no tread and he had driven with less than 10psi in his tyres (split rim, no bead lockers) resulting in the inner-tube valve being torn out of the rim, all we could do was help him fit the spare as he had no spare tube in his spares kit (supplied by Britz) and use our satellite phone to advise the plod at Birdsville of his situation and expected ETA. Two years ago on the track from Cordillo Downs to Innamincka we came across a drilling crew in a Santos ute parked up on the track who also had a flat, no repair kit and no air pump, incredible !!

You need to maintain your vehicle and be prepared and carry spares for every eventuality. Incidentally, noting the amount of Toyota's you came across how many Land Rovers did you see ? I'd guess zilch.

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