Fog Lights front and rear.

[JonR]

I'm in the process of installing the wiring for some front fog lamps.

I'm using the front fog connector which is part of the original loom and provides power, via a switch to the relay I've fitted, when the side lights are switched on.

However, I would also like to switch the rear fog light on together with the front fogs without having the headlights on. I'm thinking that I would need to take power from the front fog circuit to the rear fog relay but I'm not sure if it would work and I can't work it out since the wiring diagram in my old workshop manual doesn't include the rear fog light circuitry in its entirety.

Any help, suggestions or a complete wiring diagram would be, as always, much appreciated.

Jon.

[Litch]

Well firstly the rear fogs (and probably the front as well) should only be operational when the headlamps are on (as they are wired by manufacturers) so I don't see why you would want to change it.

Secondly front fog lights need to be mounted as low as possible so they can illuminate the area below the fog so unless you are dropping them quite a bit below the front bumper they won't work anything like as they should, in fact they may make it worse as you will get reflection off the fog.

[western]

As Litch said, rear fog lights must only be able to be switched on when dipped headlights are on, front fogs can be used with sidelights on & dipped beam off.

it's better to have the front & rear independently switched as it's not often you'll need both sets on togeher & they must have in cab tell-tale warning lights-either in the switch or in the dash panel.

these might help from Tech Archive

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=4816

[JonR]

Thanks for your replies chaps, but, based on how the fog lights work on my dads car, what you've said doesn't tally.

His car is only a couple of years old (unadulterated) and the fog lights work in the way described, that is, the front fogs can be switched on when the sidelights are on and when the front fogs are on with the sidelights the rear fogs can be switched on also. However if the front fogs are off the rear fog can only be switched on with the headlights on. Both front and rear can be switched independently.

Furthermore, on the landy, the designated "pickoff point" for front fogs as included in the original factory fittted loom and shown in the workshop manual wiring diagram as such, comes from the sidelight circuit, so I'm not changing anything merely trying to get both front and rear working in er...harmony, but, as Ralph said, independently switched with appropriate warning lights.

I agree that the fogs should be mounted low as possible but the most reflection would come from the headlights hence the need to run the front fogs without them.

Further input required

Jon.

[western]

I assume you just need to add 1 extra rear fog light to make a matched pair -- if yes, then the wiring is/should be in place, it was on my '89 110CSW, just fit & connect the left rear fog & the existing switch will do the job without any problems, as you've found the rears only come on if the dipped headlights are on.

Have a look here are 200Tdi wiring diagrams [i know these are good as I supplied them from my Defender workshop manual] they should help you figure out what you want to do.

[Andy]

its perfectly legal to have rear fogs switched off the sidelight circut. i think you'll find its mainly german cars that have the fogs wired to dipped beam.

i have seen on a lot of cars that the foglights (both ends) only work with the ignition on as well as sidelights, not sure how you would wire this - i assume a 5pin relay.

[JonR]

I assume you just need to add 1 extra rear fog light to make a matched pair -- if yes, then the wiring is/should be in place, it was on my '89 110CSW, just fit & connect the left rear fog & the existing switch will do the job without any problems, as you've found the rears only come on if the dipped headlights are on.

Have a look here are 200Tdi wiring diagrams [i know these are good as I supplied them from my Defender workshop manual] they should help you figure out what you want to do.

Thanks for the link Ralph.

I think you may have misunderstood what I mean about the pickoff point??

In the instrument binacle there is a bullet connector which is part of the sidelight circuit and, on the composite wiring diagram, it is labled as the front fog feed and it is this that I'm using to provide power for the switch side of the front fog relay. So, what I'm trying to do, is to get power from that to "energise" the rear fog relay so I can turn the rear fogs on without having the headlights on.

Jon.

[western]

My '89 110CSW is wired so I can only use rear fogs with ign on & headlights on dip beam [they stay on when main beam is selected, but you don't need main beam in fog], the rear fogs go out if the dip beam is switched to sidelights only, my front fogs are wired so they come on with sidelights on & ign on but go out if ign or sidelights are switched off.

[Andy]

Jon, take a wire from that 'front fog light feed' & put it to the rear fog switch instead of where ever it currently gets a fed from. exactly as you'd wire front fogs in. then you'll have what you want.

[JonR]

Thanks Andy, I'll try that tomorrow.

Ralph, we're nearly in the same tree eating the same banana.

Just imagine your rear fogs working with the headlights off but with the front fogs on (with the sidelights) all operating from their own switches and we're there.

Pass the maple syrup.

Jon.

[western]

I know what your wanting to do, the wiring diagram link will help

C'mon stop hogging the maple syrup

[Gromit]

my front fogs are wired so they come on with sidelights on & ign on but go out if ign or sidelights are switched off.

Where do you have your front fogs located? Low enough to be useful in the fog but out of harms way/approach angle.

[MarkieB]

I'm thinking, to get the wiring as it is in your dad's car, it could need [for the rear fog] 2 5-pin relays, both wired to the ignition + rear fog switch in series in 1 control circuit, then 1 of the other control circuits wired to the headlamp circuit, the other to the front fog circuit — although now I say that, what to do when you switch to main beam? Maybe you would need a further relay, making 3 for the rear fogs + 1 for the front fogs !

Alternative, assuming it's legal, just wire 1 5-pin to the sidelamp circuit for a more basic system; / use diodes for a system that works as your dad's

[western]

Where do you have your front fogs located? Low enough to be useful in the fog but out of harms way/approach angle.

on top of the bumper just below the headlights, they work fine & can't get trashed when on the ruff stuff

[Paul64]

on top of the bumper just below the headlights, they work fine & can't get trashed when on the ruff stuff

Looks good

[western]

Looks good

Cheers Paul, the sticker on the bumper has gone & bumper now has a nice coat of satin black paint & Td5 rubber endcaps,headlight trims, the drivers side panel has been replaced too.

this one taken a few weeks ago, with Earl's 300TDi alongside at the Abingdon 4x4 festival, both on safety duty.

[Paul64]

Cheers Paul, the sticker on the bumper has gone & bumper now has a nice coat of satin black paint & Td5 rubber endcaps,headlight trims, the drivers side panel has been replaced too.

this one taken a few weeks ago, with Earl's 300TDi alongside at the Abingdon 4x4 festival, both on safety duty.

They both look great! What sort of winch do you have?

Cheers, Paul.

[western]

Both of us have Husky 8's fitted mine's slightly older & the albright solenoids are under the left front wing behind the headlight, Earl's solenoids are in the black left end case & are the orignal superwinch can type IIRC.

[Paul64]

Both of us have Husky 8's fitted mine's slightly older & the albright solenoids are under the left front wing behind the headlight, Earl's solenoids are in the black left end case & are the orignal superwinch can type IIRC.

Thanks for that. I still haven't made my mind up yet about which one to buy. Nearly everyone I speak to has a personal preference. I will have to check a few out before making a decision. What sort of price does a Husky 8 go for?

Cheers, Paul

[JonR]

I'm thinking, to get the wiring as it is in your dad's car, it could need [for the rear fog] 2 5-pin relays, both wired to the ignition + rear fog switch in series in 1 control circuit, then 1 of the other control circuits wired to the headlamp circuit, the other to the front fog circuit — although now I say that, what to do when you switch to main beam? Maybe you would need a further relay, making 3 for the rear fogs + 1 for the front fogs !

Alternative, assuming it's legal, just wire 1 5-pin to the sidelamp circuit for a more basic system; / use diodes for a system that works as your dad's

Mark, I've spent the last couple of evenings trying to work it all out and I came up with the same problem; what happens when switching to mainbeam.

Its all getting far too complicated for its own good, so I think the easiest (Huh) option would be to leave the front and rear circuits seperate but rewire the rear fog to operate when the sidelights are on, so I'm now trying to work out how to do it.

Anyone know how the circuit functions, in particular what the relationship is between the rear fog relay, rear fog inhibit relay and the voltage transformer?

Ta.

Jon.

[western]

Thanks for that. I still haven't made my mind up yet about which one to buy. Nearly everyone I speak to has a personal preference. I will have to check a few out before making a decision. What sort of price does a Husky 8 go for?

Cheers, Paul

I paid £400 inc the matching bumper about 10 years ago, have a troll around ebay there should be a few on there, also do a completed sales search for Husky winch.

[western]

Mark, I've spent the last couple of evenings trying to work it all out and I came up with the same problem; what happens when switching to mainbeam.

Its all getting far too complicated for its own good, so I think the easiest (Huh) option would be to leave the front and rear circuits seperate but rewire the rear fog to operate when the sidelights are on, so I'm now trying to work out how to do it.

Anyone know how the circuit functions, in particular what the relationship is between the rear fog relay, rear fog inhibit relay and the voltage transformer?

Ta.

Jon.

Jon, does this help [ignore my scribble at the top, that's were I've moved my dimdip unit into the engine bay & extended the wiring]

at the rear fog inhibit relay, would moving the blue connection from the headlight switch connection onto the sidelight connection work, the rear fog switch is connected to the main light switch & the inhibit relay on the headlight circuit.

[JonR]

Jon, does this help [ignore my scribble at the top, that's were I've moved my dimdip unit into the engine bay & extended the wiring]

at the rear fog inhibit relay, would moving the blue connection from the headlight switch connection onto the sidelight connection work, the rear fog switch is connected to the main light switch & the inhibit relay on the headlight circuit.

Thanks Ralph, I already have this diagram. The trouble is, when looking at it in context with the main composite diagram, it doesn't make sense. The diagrams that you provided the link for above are better.

I'm now thinking that the best way would be to remove the rear fog lights from the headlight circuit altogether but there may be implications, hence the need to work out what does what. S'pose the only way really is to erm suck it and see.

[western]

Ok, wasn't sure if you had this diagram, so stuck it up anyway, good luck.