discomikey Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Hi all, i think this is in the right section, having made the first of the "big" leaps into "why didnt you just buy a defender in the first place????" land with Brian, i have aquired 2x complete lift up handle windy window doors, pretty much complete, and already welded up from a member of this forum (Thanks gti-90 ) i have made a start in what so far has been the most in depth and expensive "small" project on my truck. firstly assessing what i have shows that i have a decent pair of almost completely straight (or as straight as land rover doors get) only requiring a tiny amount of filler work and that the doors are complete in a sense that i could paint them, build them back up and whack them on. However.... i have decided that i want these doors to put the rest of my truck to shame, and in turn forcing myself to bring the rest of the truck back up to scratch again over the next year. one expensive shop later, i now have all of the window channels, fixings, seals, and "bits n bobs" to go along with them in a pile. all genuine LR parts of course. to make matters worse, i have stripped the CL actuators out of the scrap set of discovery doors i had knocking about and grafted a pair of brackets to mount these to. as luck (Or LR's design engineers) would have it, the stroke on the CL actuators is 22mm, exactly that of the stroke of the internal locking lever. This system is a passive system, and in order to work it simply requires a live and earth to the drivers door, and then connecting the signal wires from the drivers door to the passengers door actuator and hey presto. Im sure if i worked it out i could later add in a key fob reciever but maybe that is going too far for a series??? or have i already gone too far? next up i find myself (after shopping on our favorite generic internet auction site for sound deadening and proofing supplies) looking at this...... yes... an 'leccy window conversion kit... now, surely i have gone mad? i find myself inclined to ask whether this kit would fit to a pre '87 door innards? ill have to make a door harness anyway... (and while im at it i might add in a couple of courtesy light switches, coupled with an adequately sized capacitor (or just a proper timer relay) here are the doors so far: they came pre sanded ready for paint which saved an effort Ignoring the exterior i then prepped the interior side for paint by using a T-wash type solution, leaving it for half an hour and then removing using thinners, the next step i applied several extremely liberal coats of galva-zinc to all of the door frame parts to ensure it is protected as much as possible, followed by a couple of "quick" coats of marine blue. i then left these to dry in a heater shed overnight, once i came back to them the paint finish was decidedly worse than when i had left them, the galva-zinc reacting with the coach enamel i used, i was expecting this and was not too fussed, as when my new tin of tractol 729 etch primer arrives i plan to prep the doors both sides, give a coat of etch, followed by a sealer primer (to hopefully keep any moisture bubbles at bay) and then 3 or 4 coats of marine blue, i am using the EMG enamel from paddocks again as i find it lays down really nicely with little peel and is extremely glossy. however my truck (sprayed with this 2-3 yrs ago) has faded quite a bit now, although would come right back if i bothered to polish it. for this reason i am currently in 2 minds as to whether to apply clear coat to it or not to bother, as i would be learning how to lay a clear as i go. Anyway..... liberal amounts of seam sealer later (only on areas it can soak down and in, i have left the skin edges clear as i dont want to trap any moisture that can get in. (no photo) next, using the old channels as a template, i cut the new ones to length along with marking out and drilling them and the new shims. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Next up: dry assembly to find a suitable place for the CL actuators, here is perfect! next i did some CAD: sorry, the rest of the pictures seem to be missing, (modern technology eh...) and i will have to quickly dry assemble the catch and lock mechanism for pictures of how i connected the actuator. i did take a video of the actuator doing its thing too, successfully, repeatably, and without jamming over a number of attempts. just as it should do. (i used to be quite rough and ready with this type of thing, as anyone who may have seen my meccano defender door card on a series door system would know. (it didnt last at all) this will last however anyway, next step is to paint doors inside and out, then start on final build up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavin. Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Very tidy work there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yalan Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Looking forward to seeing how this turns out. After rebuilding my doors I had great plans for adding c/l too. Finding a space for the actuators was easy .... Until I tried to put the door card back on! I eventually sold the c/l kit instead. Have you got door cards there? There really is very little space in there on these lift up handle doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 i have indeed and the door cards do fit with the CL fitted. only just though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 If I remember correctly mickeyw's 90 had these doors and he fitted electric windows to them. Some nice work so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Maybe he will crop up as there are universal kits and purpose built kits as the link above it would be interesting to hear his thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 The purpose built kits you have linked to are designed for the Defender push-button doors which have a different internal structure, so might need modification to fit the earlier doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 True, however the inner handle plate thingy looks very similar which does make me wonder, you have to do fab work with universal kits anyway the purpose built one just looks 10x better engineered and for not a massive amount more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 If I remember correctly mickeyw's 90 had these doors and he fitted electric windows to them. Some nice work so far I heard my name... Yes, as James says, I fitted CDL and electric windows to my 1986 Ninety. As Yalan discovered, space for the actuator is rather limited inside the door trim, but it is doable. I used actuators and remote controls from SPAL who are an Italian OEM manufacturer. The quality of the stuff was excellent, and the actuators were a good deal smaller. I had to chop the window lift frame a bit to let the actuators sit high enough to clear the door trim, but it all went together and worked very well. I also ordered one extra actuator, I didn't want to leave out the rear door. Open latch surgery was necessary to implement this. Apologies that the photos don't show too much detail, I wasn't so keyed up for taking shots of everything I did back then. As for the windows, I used motors from an early model Vectra. By chance I happened upon a door with the trim panel removed, and reckoned the motors looked like they might be slim enough to fit in the limited space of the early door. I also use the geared quadrant to go with the motor and grafted it in place of the original LR item. Remember, no one has ever made a commercially available kit for these doors AFAIK, the parts for later doors will not fit. So although this may seem rather drastic way of doing things, it cost next to nothing, apart from my time to develop a plan for the first one. Repeated on the other side took a lot less time. Generally it all worked very well. This is the only photo I can find of the drivers door. As you can see, window lift frame surgery took place. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The purpose built kits you have linked to are designed for the Defender push-button doors which have a different internal structure, so might need modification to fit the earlier doors. James, these early doors have a lot less room behind the trim panel. You can see in my photo how big the LR lock actuators are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Great stuff !! Reminds me of the door in Project Binky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 Great stuff !! Reminds me of the door in Project Binky may have been part of my inspiration to go all out on the nicities, thanks mickey, if you ever have your doors apart again i would be highly interested in a couple of pics from the other side. im not afraid to fabricate or try to get anything to fit, maybe the electric regulators from the disco doors will fit? hmmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The key thing is finding parts that are slim enough to fit into the space available. I was lucky to find a door with the trim already removed, and the lift motor in plain view. This saved quite a bit of hunting around. I'm afraid I no longer own the vehicle I did all these mods to. I now have a 110, and it feels like I'm starting all over again...actually I am, eek! Door bottom repairs are needed, and the horizontal members higher up have detached at the front too. BTW: I am looking for some reasonable condition front door trim cards. I have a pair but they're a bit of a mess. Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve200TDi Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Hi Mike, I retrofitted some of the later door cards to my lift up handle doors as the older ones are always past it unless you buy new ones! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 i was luckynto recieve a pair of nearly perfect nick early door cards with mine ☺ i think lasalle do all sorts of ones mind you they probably arent cheap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumping jack Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 http://www.lrparts.net/defender-door-card-front-right-hand-with-lift-up-style-handles-in-black.html not silly expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Nice work discomikey, nice to see early doors being saved Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Oh I love the recess handle doors, it just didn't cross my mind to buy new ones of those when I replaced my door during Phase one. Nice work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 More photos, I have managed to build up one door now barring the door card, and got as far as dynamatting the second. I missed the high build primer stage as I was getting fed up of waiting for paint and my series doors are ridiculously leaky. As a result thee finish on the external side is okay, the paint itself Is fine but there are imperfections and sanding swirls visible in the sunlight, obviously when I painted them inside the workshop I couldn't see this. Never mind, it won't be too much to pull them off, prep the and spray them up again in the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 All windows channels replaced, dynamatting added, all new seals, doors cavity waxed and windows shimmer up nicely. Central locking actuators fit a treat so far. Just need to get hold of some door card retaining clips, the glued on type, and some keys for the locks, or a new barrel set. Mum wasn't best pleased when she came into the living room to see I was building doors in there. Haha Back at uni now massive workload not going home this weeven or the next, After that I need to get some door seals and refurb a set of hinges, blast and paint them Adding grease nipples. And ensuring there is a route for the heated mirrir harness i will soon be adding. Ooh, and anyone know of a source of striker plates that are under £50 the pair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve200TDi Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Yeah, the striker plates are expensive new, so I think I found some second hand at Billing, Peterborough etc... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 Small but important update. These doors are amazing! Why would anyone convert from one piece to split doors? I see no benefit St all, it is literally like going backwards. I left the door cards off until now in case I had any issues or rattles, pleased to say it's all good, however 2 days ago my drivers window winder jammed, and I could not get the window down. So I scavenged my disco front doors for parts and now have electric windows! These aren't as compact as the ventral parts mickey used, and took a lot of inner panel modification. I had to modify the disco quadrant assembly to the right lengths and offset, and space the inner door handle out by 12 mm but you don't notice it when the door card is on. I also had to use the passengers assembly on the drivers door and vice versa. Now struggling to find some momentary motor reversing switches which match the rest in my truck, as a result all wires are ran but I only have a switch for the drivers door and it is a latching switch so you have to be careful There are switches about but it will be £20+postage for the two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 You got a pic of the rest of the switches in your truck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 Just standard lucas toggle switches, either that, or the generic classic style silver lever toggle switches. Like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/30-Amp-Toggle-Switch-Polarity-Reverse-DC-Motor-Control-/360100135670 These are fairly steep with postage added thoufh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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