Mr Noisy Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Hey chaps So its time for me again to call on those who are older and wiser than i am I recently snapped my winch rope, so it is time for replacement. It was a budget 11mm that had served a good few years very well, so theres no particular complaint. It got jammed in a pulley block which damaged it, and shortly after it had let go. It was 11mm and if you didnt wrap it onto the drum under load, the drum was pretty much brimmed. This is a regular lowline drum, 9" long, 6" across, 2.5" core. I have been speaking with Andy @ Ruftraks regards some plasma line, i was wondering about upgrading my line quality and thus being able to go thinner, and thus having room to go longer, up to 125ft from my original 100. I was wondering however if, at 9.5mm rope, 150ft would fit on the drum. I guess not, but wondered if anyone had any experience or opinions of any of the above. Im all ears, many thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 How is 9.5mm up grading rope strength is directly proportional to diameter. Granted different manufacturers have different breaking strains but at best your only going to equal assuming the new rope is actually a stronger brand more likely you'll be down grading. Personally I've always run 30m (100ft ish) of 11mm (i wouldn't run anything smaller) on a low line and as you say that's about all you can get on even at 9.5mm I think you'll struggle to get 125ft on. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I'd rather run a slightly larger rope and less of it. I would also rather run a little less rope to allow for some bunching on side pulls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Can you not just carry other ropes in your recovery kit and can make the length up when you need to ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Can you not just carry other ropes in your recovery kit and can make the length up when you need to ? that's what I missed off my post, knew there was something else I meant to say. Carry an extension rope or strap for when you need the extra length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Hi guys Thanks for that Was working on that basis that 11mm is WAY over spec for my 9500lb winch Andy said 9.5mm plasma breaks at 17000lb and that 8mm would be quite sufficient but going to 9.5mm would give extra safety to allow for chafing and damage etc as the rope gets used hard. But I do think 11mm is overkill if I'm honest, I mean we discussed 100ft @ 9.5 being good to reduce bunching and keep the rope closer to the centre of the drum, but the fact of having more line can be beneficial when you need that long pull I actually only just bought a 50ft extension line for the just in case moment but that doesn't mean more line on the drum wouldn't be of use, just not so sure it'll fit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I've snapped an 11mm plasma with a single line pull on a warn m8000 so I'm not convinced 11mm is overkill. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 What happens when you double the line with a pulley block and then operate the winch at max power - 9500lbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 I've snapped an 11mm plasma with a single line pull on a warn m8000 so I'm not convinced 11mm is overkill. Mike I did as well, but only because it was damaged, no? It wasn't even close to the limit until it was weakened. What happens when you double the line with a pulley block and then operate the winch at max power - 9500lbsNothing. Doubling the effort through a pulley block gives you twice the pull at the load, but you're sharing it over two pieces of rope,miso they only see the max 9500lbs each Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 I might wait a week or so and have a chat with david bowyer at the show, see if he knows how much I could squeeze onto a drum I just don't want to miss an opportunity to have as much rope spooled on as I can It's not a competition vehicle so the winch tends to get used when we're in the **** and as the Welsh hillside taught me the other day when the rope snapped, anchor points can be few and far between! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 My rope was two months old granted we were on day four of ladoga but the rope was not damaged. We were however wedged between two trees and trying to pull the 90 through a gap smaller than the truck. Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Well then I'd says that situation is far more suited to using extensions, even if you each had one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I wouldn't bother with 9.5 Go with 11mm. We run 125ft on ours, it's very rare that we use all of it. If we need to, we just add an extension. If you got for a 150 ft, what will happen is you'll bugger up each end (once you've swapped ends around) and then have a waste of line left in the middle. We swap ends most events. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Hey Gordon Thanks for the tips So you can fit 125ft @11mm on a regular lowline? Thanks Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPendrey Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Don't forget, if you load more rope on there, you have to unload more in order to get the full pulling strength. Don't know the exact details, but a half-full winch isn't going to pull the same as one with just a few coils round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Sam, we've got bigger ends on our winches which helps but you can fit 125 on something like a tds - however you do need to spool it on carefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I did the entire RFC on 1 9.5 mm plasma rope, with a PTO winch. 10 days of hard off road and stupid hard winching more times than I care to remember, We cleaned and re spooled the winch rope every evening to make it last; The life of your rope is very much depending on this, and things like abrasion on rocks, past trees, double lining over a shackle are all going to reduce the life of your rope to hours. We now run 11mm, as the speed of our winch has increased by a factor 4 and we went from a roller fairlead to a hawse style fairlead. This has reduced life of the cable unfortunately. But I would happily use 100 ft of 9.5 mm on a 9.5k low line. In fact, I still run it on our rear ep9. Plasma rope rules in my opinion. I always buy 2 ropes, one as an extension with a loop spliced in the end, which also is a spare. For Russia we used winch webbing as extension, this is very compact to store. We had 3 x 190 foot and 2x 95 foot of extension. The lengths are based on 100 ft (as is on the winch) -5 ft, so you can pick over to the next extension with a few wraps round the winch drum. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Don't forget, if you load more rope on there, you have to unload more in order to get the full pulling strength. Don't know the exact details, but a half-full winch isn't going to pull the same as one with just a few coils round. this is a major consideration, but going thinner somewhat cancels out going longer! Sam, we've got bigger ends on our winches which helps but you can fit 125 on something like a tds - however you do need to spool it on carefully. thanks gordon, i think on that basis i will only consider 125ft @ 9.5mm I did the entire RFC on 1 9.5 mm plasma rope, with a PTO winch. 10 days of hard off road and stupid hard winching more times than I care to remember, We cleaned and re spooled the winch rope every evening to make it last; The life of your rope is very much depending on this, and things like abrasion on rocks, past trees, double lining over a shackle are all going to reduce the life of your rope to hours. We now run 11mm, as the speed of our winch has increased by a factor 4 and we went from a roller fairlead to a hawse style fairlead. This has reduced life of the cable unfortunately. But I would happily use 100 ft of 9.5 mm on a 9.5k low line. In fact, I still run it on our rear ep9. Plasma rope rules in my opinion. I always buy 2 ropes, one as an extension with a loop spliced in the end, which also is a spare. For Russia we used winch webbing as extension, this is very compact to store. We had 3 x 190 foot and 2x 95 foot of extension. The lengths are based on 100 ft (as is on the winch) -5 ft, so you can pick over to the next extension with a few wraps round the winch drum. Daan thanks for that great reply daan good to hear that you rate 9.5mm, and particularly plasma at that i think if i do choose a 125ft option i will see how it fares on the drum, if it gets too tight i'll just have to shorten it and learn the hard way i treat my rope with respect, it gets a good wash out after every day of use, and do try to avoid abrasion where possible, but of course its not always that easy im trying to figure out your -5ft theory, sounds very clever but i cant quite grasp the thinking, would love to hear more on that 190ft extension btw?!?!?! awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 If you have a TDS, you can space it up by 20mm to get the extra rope one, as the tie bars are quite widely spaced on them. You haven't said what winch it is you have (I think) .....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Also bear in mind that you can put a new rope of 125 foot of 9.5 mm on your winch quite easily, but this stuff grows in diameter over time. it probably measures 15 mm by the time you are finished with it. the 100ft of 9.5 bunches a lot on my ep9. The shorter extension is keeping in mind that you need 3 rolls or more around the drum, 1 roll takes just under a foot plus you loose a foot for splicing the end. so if you have 100 ft of cable, you only have 96 ft of rope out of the winch. Hence, if you are in a swamp, and need to winch a long way, you pick over to the next 95 ft, which you can just reach. If you have a swamp that's 2 mile long, better hope there is a tree nearby, as with all the extensions, the spare rope and rope from the rear winch we had 950 ft in total. We never needed that much though. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 It's a champion 9.5HS so it's nothing special nor sizeable. And yes I was going to say I'm sure my 11mm is like a sausage now, especially when not under load! And yes I get it now, your extensions are just shorter than multiples of your winch rope and/or shorter extensions Very clever It basically boils down to 150+vat for 100ft plasma 9.5 180+vat for 125ft plasma 9.5 130+vat for 100ft budget 11mm 100+vat for 100ft budget 10mm Cannot decide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 option 1, no contest. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Thankyou daan Another option has just come into the mix, 100ft 11mm budget, but price isn't yet confirmed As the price does have a bearing on it for me at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 If you have a TDS, you can space it up by 20mm to get the extra rope one, as the tie bars are quite widely spaced on them. You haven't said what winch it is you have (I think) .....? Sorry, i should have said that before. I've raised my tds and tie bars. Thankyou daanAnother option has just come into the mix, 100ft 11mm budget, but price isn't yet confirmedAs the price does have a bearing on it for me at the moment The option you should go for is 100ft 11mm bowrope G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Gordon, Bowrope is more expensive than plasma! I'm going to see if I can get my hands on this brand new second hand rope that someone is selling, otherwise I think it'll have to be a 100ft plasma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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