T1G UP Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 If this was a fantasy roll cage i'd go carbon fibre. BUT it aint so ANY cage is better than none me thinks.watch jules roll and image if ther was no cage over his head. I'd go med weight red band. we don't use blue band really cause reds better and pennies more. 304 for some bling maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gav- Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 I am currently living in Cambs. Looking at building spaceframe racer within next few years. But for now want it to do bits for a Disco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 The Clarke / Machine Mart benders don't bend either CDS or BB at all, the forumers are C**p. I know cos I have one, bought from a idiot who bought it and found that it didn't do the job, however I have some old propoer formers so did a quick adapter, and now it works ! Just be aware if you buy one that they are rubbish for bending the sorts of tube talked about in this thread Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 If this was a fantasy roll cage i'd go carbon fibre. Would carbon fibre be sufficiently impact resistant? I thought it snapped rather than deforming, but I really don't know what I'm talking about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 I suspect not, Carbon fibre is a bit of a bitch to use, it doesn't like point loading at all. I've no technical background in CF, but Carbon fibre spars on yachts don't have any point fixings, all the loads are taken on strops or fabric webs, distributing the forces over a large surface area. Also, as you said, whilst quite elastic, it snaps before reaching plastic deformation, so persumably it doesn't absorb much energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Gav- something like a tubeshark or JD2, MM benders are ok for scaffold and thats about it Cage in an ultra bling world then how about memory metal? dink it and then either boil the car in a bag or pass sufficient current through it and watch it reform to its original state I wonder if plastics technology could produce a cage with sufficient strength to it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Yeah, shape memory alloy (SMA) would be pretty cool. if only you could get all the body panels in SMA too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warthog Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share Posted November 10, 2006 Right to add another perspective on this: What are BB and CDS welding properties like, when in comparison with each other? Im gonna be using a MIG, no TIG plant for me Just out of curiosity, from experiance who has seen "real life" comparison between BB and CDS outcome after a similiar roll? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Would carbon fibre be sufficiently impact resistant? I thought it snapped rather than deforming, but I really don't know what I'm talking about... Problem is that it shatters on a big impact, so any more than 1 big impact and your cage is gone. F1 and sportscars do have carbon roll hoops though. Anyway, I would like to add to my earlyer comment on the subject of BB: While it is maybe ok for a straight piece of tube, where you bend a tube, the weld will stretch/compress/bend a lot (depending how the tube is positioned in the former) and therefore totally unpredictable. When I say I wont use it, I have to add to that that I wont use it in a situation were bending is required. I used some box section ERW for high loaded parts, which I believe is acceptable as long as you dont need to bend it. The earlyer comment I read from people saying that a rollcage is only there to rub trees at 2 mph is total bullsh1t in my opinion. For rubbing trees you only need a bit channel riveted to the roof or do nothing. The argument of low speed is also irrelevant. What I think is important is the fact that we are off road: in quarys, on mountainhills, big gullys etcetera. Al places were there is a lot of height differences in very small places. This brings all kinds of dangers, rolling down hills, landslides and other things that you cant predict. So get that cage sorted properly and expect you will need it. I needed it when I never expected it to go wrong. I did a back flip and double barrel roll as a result and I think We should learn from the mistake I made. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1G UP Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 i don't know what i'm talking about when it comes to carbon fire but it looks nice and when the F1 boys have a smash up at 200mph the look quite safe in the carbon bobsliegh thats left over! Plastics a good idea,body panels as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Plastics a good idea,body panels as well. Rubber's even better for bodywork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Where does clubman 500 tube fit in with CDS and T45?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 500nm per mm2 rating hence the name, has a higher elongation threshold than T45 but not as high as CDS, HTH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 So it fits between the 2?? I'd guess its probably lighter than CDS and not as light as T45 though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warthog Posted November 12, 2006 Author Share Posted November 12, 2006 I use this. http://www.tubela.com/h3pr.htm Second hand. I have yet to ripple anything. I have managed to get the two outer pins to dent 3mm wall tube by using them on a narrow setting (meant for smaller tube). It was just an experiment to see how small a radius I could get (it still bent with no ripples, but as I say, there were a couple of small dents right at the pins). Moglite used it for his cage and links which included some pretty heavy spec tube - I don't think he got any rippling on that either, maybe he will chime in. There is little ovalation (is that a word?!?) - well within the usual 0.9 aspect ratio limit, which if memory serves is also good for FIA spec stuff. Borrow a bender if you can - it's a bit of a use it once and then have it sit on your shelves forever getting in the way type deal if you are only doing one cage. Al. Mailed the company to see what one of these would set me back? But one of you must know, how much i would be looking at to get hold of one? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Bang on Smo, theres always a trade off in terms of mechanical properties unless you start getting into heat treated materials and then you can have something nice and maleable, build what you want and then heat treat it to give the required results - bit of a logistical nightmare to heat treat a cage/chassis though Pass Warthog, I generally buy secondhand tooling Ive got a JD2 and it wasnt cheap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MogLite Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Mailed the company to see what one of these would set me back? But one of you must know, how much i would be looking at to get hold of one?Cheers I looked for the pricelist but couldn't find it. £1050 + VAT seems to be in my memory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warthog Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 I looked for the pricelist but couldn't find it.£1050 + VAT seems to be in my memory Now wheres that Chrismas present list....? But in the meanwhile, will have a look at building one! See attachment for details.. a_hmp_200_final.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Mornin all. Carbon fibre is carp for this, period. It has virtually no abrasion resisitance, so would eventually fail from just rubbing against stuff, if nothing else happened first. Aside from any other drawbacks (impacts etc). Warthog - wanna use mine? I'm nearly done with it for now. I can probably even get it delivered to Minchinhampton, which is near you. Moglite's price looks right if I remember well - borrowing is the way forward. You'll have a bit of an easier time cutting and welding BB than CDS, but there's not much in it - in my experience (limited with CDS...). To be honest, although the CDS seems harder I kind of like the way it cuts. Daan - don't necessarily disagree - a cage should be built assuming it will be used, but this whole 'BB is crud' is getting tiresome for me. It is fine for most, I'd be happy rolling in it, to an extent. People have legitimate concerns about rolling in a CDS frame too... You can argue it forever. For me, BB is fine (for this type of website), I hope the geometry, moment of area and construction (welding) will save my bacon. That's it. Marcus - I used to have the remains of a smashed F1 car in a box under my desk at a previous work (structures & materials research / computational mechanics). Quite a small box. Dolly - put down the crack pipe! I once made some solar array deployment devices for a nano-satellite using shape-memory-alloys (NiTi). Bog roll is stiffer. You'd be squashed flat in a roll, but then they could easily recover your body afterwards by hairdrying the cage... That is all. Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 you ponce Al, your weedy satelites are no match for my inferior intelligence - Im betting you didnt get anywhere near Conan sized plate on it which would explain your crisp packet strength issues. Im in agreement though horses for courses - in an ideal world T45 and CDS would be available on the NHS but until then use a material suitable for your application and budget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Why not use red band (bs1387 heavy)? Much much better than blue band, bends very nicely, welds easy, it's malable so it'll bend a lot before it cracks. And it's a lot cheaper than any of the girly steel alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 you disappoint me Dan with this "lightweight" business - what about 2" round bar? bit of a pain to bend but a lot stronger than red, blue or girly steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Has anyone got any tables of data to compare BB, CDS, T45, Clubman 500 and redband - things like strength, weight per meter, cost etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Why cloud a good argument with factual data? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Why cloud a good argument with factual data? good point - theres a lot of businesses that would fold if they ever had to back up what they claim with that "fact" stuff - its un-British! (Bless Ashcroft for backing up speil with facts - hallowed be Daves name!) Ive got a link somewhere with yield strength vs elongation, I'll post it up as soon as I can dig it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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