'dumped' 90

[Davedef90]

Surely if you are repairing vehicles for profit you are a legit business. Therefore you have insurances to go with your business?? Does that insurance not come with legal advice?

[pat_pending]

Contact DVLA and obtain the registered keeper details, you need "reasonable cause" and I think there's a small fee.

Work out a sensible fee for storage, disposal and any other expenses.

Send an invoice and covering letter by signed for delivery,

"The invoice is paid within 14 days and the vehicle removed or you will apply for a v5 and dispose of the vehicle to cover your costs"

You are legally entitled to do this (you might want to google Lien.)

After disposing of the vehicle you can take your fees but the previous keeper would be entitled to any money left over.

You would be expected to sell the vehicle for it's correct value.

[dirtyninety]

To sum up, becoming the registered keeper on the V5 does NOT mean you are the legal owner.

When you buy a vehicle on SORN (or not) any outstand fines do not transfer to the new keeper. But make sure you SORN it as soon as you get the logbook through in the post.

You should write to the DVLA for the keepers last known address, write a letter, take photos and copys, send it recorded. You then have proof you have made reasonable effort to contact the owner. If no response within a reasonable amount of time, you have the right to claim it as yours. Register the vehicle in your name, then do as you see fit with it.

(typed slowly at the same time as pat_pending) ^

[dirtyninety]

What is lien law?

A lien can take many different forms and, as such, lien law can be extremely convoluted.

It is an area that requires expert knowledge and you are always recommended to obtain expert legal advice with anything relating to liens.

Meaning of lien

To give a simple definition, a lien is putting a charge or claim on something until a debt on it is repaid.

Perhaps the most common example is that of a mortgage. When you take out a mortgage, a form of security is put on the property. This security remains until the full amount is paid back.

Another example is that of a mechanic and a car. If a mechanic carries out work on a car, they may claim a lien over the car until the cost of repair is paid.

If the person who owns the car does not pay for the work, a court may well decide to sell the car and use the proceeds of sale to pay the mechanic for the work carried out.

Asserting a lien

A lien can only be asserted if it is lawful to do so. For example, if the mechanic above had returned the car to its owner before being paid, they could not later steal the car back and assert a lien.

Conversely, the owner of the car cannot steal the car back without paying the mechanic; if they do so, the lien may still be asserted. The mechanic may also choose to deposit the car with a third party, such as a garage or car park, without terminating the lien.

Asserting a lien is only the final resort. The property is held in order to compel the payment of a debt and cannot form the payment itself without the order of a court. The party asserting the lien must do so for a specified amount and the lien may terminate if they attempt to claim for more than they are owed.

Pretty handle example! (take from HERE)

[Team Idris]

Can't you just pm me your address? I'll PayPal for a new battery and can you leave the keys in it

My old boss sold a tractor after 12 months, but that guy hadn't paid anything on an engine re-build. I think how this normally works is folk go ahead with a possession on the basis a court would side with them? I haven't seen it from the proper legal side.

Unless it's a really good one, I probably would just push it out onto the street and ring the council to complain about it.

[CwazyWabbit]

Don't know his address, Pete - only a mobile number, which no longer exists.

. He would never see it I guess, as he lives quite a way from here.

Les.[/size]

Les, do you have a rough idea of where he lives?

[tacr2man]

Some of this advice is making hard work of it , apply for V5 , you then need to sorn it . The benefit of going this route is the DVLA contact previous keeper at his last known address , as they will will want to give opportunity for prev keeper to confirm transfer.

You can take this as your attempt to contact owner , if it doesn't flush him out , you can then take steps to recover some of your costs , eg storage. you could put on ebay as buy it now at price to cover your storage , and value of vehicle as per current market and condition ,and listing costs . If no takers , pretty likely in view of storage levy , then you have fulfilled your duty to try and realise a fair price. You would then be free to offset your storage costs (business) by purchasing said vehicle as private buyer, retain any surplus if any , or deficit , should you have a later claim by previous owner. . Job done .

[zoltan]

We had a customer that left a vehicle with us for a load of custom work do be done. We did the work and then tried to contact him for payment and collection and initially he was 'yep, I'll be down next week' then the excuses rolled and finally the phone didn't get answered. After waiting months and getting fed up with storing his vehicle we put an ad in Motoring News 'XYZ's Historic Cooper S for sale £xxxx' You know what? Motoring News used to come out on Wednesday I think, he was on the phone in about an hour and came down the very next day and paid his bill in full

In your case after you have made all sorts of reasonable attempts to contact him I'd just do as others have suggested, apply for the V5 and flog it. 5 years is more than reasonable

[Simon_CSK]

What is the likely storage cost? Say £10 per week and that is on the light side so £520 per year over 5 years £2600. If it has been sitting for 5 years unused then it is unlikely to fetch more than £1000.00. As said above stick it on Ebay even starting at £1 with a reserve at £2600.00. If it doesn't meet the reserve then it is yours in my book.

[wanger]

whats it worth? £1000 tops. he must be aware of storage charges etc so he ca do the maths and now knows he's in debt.

get the paperwork up together, bills for storage etc and go see the police, tell them you want to sell it to recover costs. I have done this on a debt a few nears ago, i repossed a vehicle, i had the spare keys. i told the police what i had done and they told the man he had lost his car.

[dirtyninety]

Lets see a picture of it!

[gazelle]

Have you tried 192.com and stuck his name in. If you know what part of the country he is/has been in then it can narrow down the search. There is a small cost to get at the details, but it may be worth it.

http://www.searchelectoralroll.co.uk/ can also be useful.

Good luck.

[ThreePointFive]

It's not quite as simple as above if you entered into an agreement, verbal or written, to look after the car after work was completed. If there was an agreed timescale that has been breached then it's simple enough, if no timescale was discussed then you will be having to prove what is a reasonable amount of time for theother party to move it, or expect you to hold the vehicle.

You really should get legal advice on this because the terms you discussed on setting up the arrangement are key to how you can progress, they will override any DVLA/V5 etc rules.

[Simon_CSK]

It's not quite as simple as above if you entered into an agreement, verbal or written, to look after the car after work was completed. If there was an agreed timescale that has been breached then it's simple enough, if no timescale was discussed then you will be having to prove what is a reasonable amount of time for theother party to move it, or expect you to hold the vehicle.

You really should get legal advice on this because the terms you discussed on setting up the arrangement are key to how you can progress, they will override any DVLA/V5 etc rules.I

I would agree to a point but 5 years that would be taking the pass.

[western]

I reckon 5 years is more than a reasonable amount of time for the owner to get in contact & retrieve his vehicle, as mentioned earlier even at 10 quid a month storage fee, the total would be more than the 90 is worth.

[CwazyWabbit]

You need to bare in mind the last contact wasn't 5 years ago but much more recently (just over a year ago, although I'd guess at that point it was made obvious it wasn't welcome there anymore).

Also we may have a reasonable lead now on the whereabouts of the owner.....

[ejparrott]

Well that's progress.....camp on his doorstep then?!

[zim]

What's your address ?

[discomikey]

interested to see how this turns out.

[simonr]

If, say, it's handbrake were to slip, might it roll (all by itself) and stop at the side of the road? I suspect that the authorities would then take more interest in finding it's keeper. It doesn't recover your costs, but it would get it out of your hair!

Years ago, a builders truck parked outside my house while he was working on next-door. Left it there for a couple of weeks - I was getting a bit hacked off not being able to park in my drive. Neither the Police nor Council could move as it was on private property. Mysteriously, due to freak weather conditions,it rolled up-hill (skidded would be more accurate) and stopped on a main road! Next day it was gone! Never heard anything from the builder - maybe the same freak weather took care of him too!

Si

[SPendrey]

Hmm, there's an idea. Freak snow storm in June means the Landy ends up on the road.

[daveturnbull]

A couple of years ago a work colleague had crappy old P38 dumped in his nominated parking space at his flat. It stayed there for about 2 months before a freak gust of wind ( ) saw it neatly re-parked on the main road. The council then plastered it in fines due to being permit controlled road, and a couple of weeks later it vanished.

[SPendrey]

Les, reading this site (called "Ask the Police"), it would seem you are within your rights to move the vehicle if it is a nuisance to you...

"It is an offence to immobilise, move or restrict the movement of a motor vehicle in a way which would prevent a person (who is entitled to remove that vehicle) from removing the vehicle concerned (YOU ARE NOT PREVENTING REMOVAL OF THE VEHICLE OR IMMOBILISING IT). Therefore if a vehicle has been left on private land, an offence may be committed if, for example, the owner of that land clamped or towed away that vehicle. To be guilty of the offence however, a person must undertake these actions with the 'intention' of preventing or inhibiting a person entitled to move the vehicle concerned from moving the vehicle (YOU ARE NOT INTENDING TO PREVENT REMOVAL OF THE VEHICLE). Consequently, a person who moves an obstructively parked vehicle a short distance intending to regain access to his or her property would not be committing the offence in circumstances where he or she did not intend to prevent the driver of the vehicle from subsequently retrieving it. (TO ME, THIS LAST BIT SAYS YOU'RE OK TO MOVE IT).

If you want to be totally sure you've done due diligence, place a sign on it saying it needs to be removed, and if not done so within 14 days you will move it (and take a photo proving the sign was there). No doubt it will be ignored, but you can't be faulted for trying. Leave the keys in the car because you don't want to be preventing the owner assuming responsibility.

[ThreePointFive]

What almost everyone is ignoring is the (verbal) contract to keep the vehicle on the land. There has also been recent (in terms of the five-year total) contact with the owner a year ago, and presumably no new terms were discussed or agreed upon, meaning the owner is entitled to believe that agreement is still as valid as the first day it took effect. While we could hold a poll on here and ask what is "reasonable" time for the vehicle to be left, it's somewhat different in a civil claims court (as this is not criminal law) where you have to quantify that, not just state an opinion.

Without knowing the ins and outs of the agreement it's impossible to say, but there is a high chance the owner will have some expectation of the vehicle being left A) securely and B) safely without incurring damage.

All of the advice posted so far is based around some variation on the 'someone parked in front of my driveway' scenario. That is not Les' situation.

Likewise the legal advice over moving vehicles like that is based around the assumption someone parked and walked away - with the keys.

You wouldn't leave them in your car because it would get stolen, you'd have a hard time trying to argue you were in some way trying to aid the owner by leaving their car unlocked, with keys, after the inevitable happened.

Les, seek legal advice, here is not the place.

[Anderzander]

No - although it is the same scenario as the spray shop example I cited.

I think we've brought all the elements / options out - so I would imagine it's just for Les to satisfy himself around the legality of them and see what he's comfortable with.