discomikey Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 first of all... Sorry, i am looking for a particular piece of clarification, preferably a reliable source. would a change in road spring (i.e. parabolic spring on a series, or HD/lifted coil spring on a coiler) act as a modified suspension system and therefore remove the 2 points? Cheers all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash.Witty Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I read a little bit into this for when I was building my 110. If you convert leafs to coils, you're altering the chassis and axles by adding brackets, tabs and various other bits to allow the fitment of the radius arms etc. that's altering the chassis/suspension system. Fitting HD coils to a coiler or parabolics to a leafer is a modification but you're not actually straying away from the original land Rover design. So you would keep your points and retain its original I.d. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 As far as I can make out it comes under a like for like replacement part even if you change the rate. Different vehicles had different springs even on the same model so they would be hard pushed to prove they weren't original (except parabolic as they are noticeably different not that it matters in this instance). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 On a related note, I assume the points aren't split between front and rear? So 3 or 1 linking the front would remove the suspension points? Even as I'm still using LRs design springs and shocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 copied from ---- https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-altered-vehicles Keep the original registration number Your vehicle must have 8 or more points from the table below if you want to keep the original registration number. 5 of these points must come from having the original or new and unmodified chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame. Part Points Chassis, monocoque bodyshell (body and chassis as one unit) or frame - original or new and unmodified (direct from manufacturer) 5 Suspension (front and back) - original 2 Axles (both) - original 2 Transmission - original 2 Steering assembly - original 2 Engine - original 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Like for like is deemed to be "Running Repairs" ie - if its a leaf sprung LR, it would have originally been fitted genuine springs, a running repair is changing these for replacements of the same TYPE but not ness genuine, so any leaf spring replacing whats on there is ok as a "Running repair". BUTIf you change from a lef to a coil then thats a modification of the type fitted so points lost. Same with Coils, genuine to Old man Emu is NOT a mod, but change it to say Air bags and yup thats a change of type Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Also goes for changing suspension pickup points or arms, if you one/three link something = lost points as not using standard suspension geometry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I wrote to dvla about this when rebuilding mine - amongst other things they were clear that to retain the two points (or major component status ) both front and rear springs and dampers had to be the original items or to original specification. I was happy enough with the springs and rates but I wanted to use my Bilstien dampers... they said no. I made my own decision about how to deal with that. YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 It doesn't pay to ask any of the agencies anything , as you will get almost as many answers as people answering , because most are not that well up on it , other than the ones doing the actual inspections , the suits etc in the office are generally a few years etc out of touch . eg the bilstien shock answer above. If it had been a mod to say lever arm shocks then that would not be original design type. Re axles , they dont have to be the actual axles supplied on the vehicle (they have serial number) but if solid axle must be solid axle , not modded to swinging arm for example.HTSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallfry Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 This is all rather ridiculous and farcical. If you take these new rules "as read" it means that you cannot change anything at all. So if, for instance, you have welded on some alternative engine mounts, or just a bracket for an exhaust, then you have modified the chassis and therefore must have the vehicle crushed or Q plated. If you have a Richards or Designa chassis........i.e. four plates welded at the corners to form the chassis rails, then this is NOT the original type or specification, so therefore also should fall foul of the rules. All of which makes most of you dirty rotten crims. Except me of course Sadly it would appear that its all down to how an inspecting "officer" interprets those rules on the day, and that is dangerous territory, when it appears that the rules are so ambiguous. There should be NO grey areas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 When I did my restoration, I was relatively tight on points. I made a query to several individuals in DVLA on the springs, not trusting just one opinion, and all stated that springs, even leaf springs, constitute a service replaceable part, so even though leaf springs form the entire suspension and location system, they can be swapped while retaining their points, and that went for fitting parabolic replacements too. It's only going from leafs to coils or air, or changing to very different springs of different length (like Koos' front spring mod) that would cause issues to UK registered vehicles. So, very flexible (see what I did there? ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 DVLA write & say one version although different depending on who you speak to at dvla, then VOSA or whatever there called now tell you something different again, so how are we mere mortals to know which is correct. prior to my galv chassis change, the local area VRO office, hadn't got a clue what was required, [now all closed down] & after speaking to one of the VOSA team at regional station he said it's a like for like change no need to do anything, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanger Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 so if i was to build a "special" out of a discovery using all the parts except the body and chassis would hat keep the reg? like a tomcat or a tubular chassis whitbread thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 No, modified chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 That would come under the kit car regs then. It would need an iva, but as all the parts are from one doner you'd either keep the original reg or have an age related one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanger Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 ah ok thankyou. DVLA say Get an age-related registration number You can apply for an age-related number if you can prove you’ve used 2 original major parts along with: a new monocoque bodyshell, chassis or frame from a specialist kit manufacturer an altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame from the original vehicle The registration number will be based on the age of the original vehicle. Your vehicle must pass the relevant type approval test to get an age-related registration number. https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/kitconverted-vehicles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 This is all rather ridiculous and farcical. If you take these new rules "as read" it means that you cannot change anything at all. So if, for instance, you have welded on some alternative engine mounts, or just a bracket for an exhaust, then you have modified the chassis and therefore must have the vehicle crushed or Q plated. If you have a Richards or Designa chassis........i.e. four plates welded at the corners to form the chassis rails, then this is NOT the original type or specification, so therefore also should fall foul of the rules. All of which makes most of you dirty rotten crims. Except me of course Sadly it would appear that its all down to how an inspecting "officer" interprets those rules on the day, and that is dangerous territory, when it appears that the rules are so ambiguous. There should be NO grey areas I agree and have thus far never found anything substantial on line. The main issue is, there is no definition of any of the parts or what they mean. Take the engine for example. Which bit would you need to keep? If you had say a 3.5 RV8. Would swapping the heads and/or intake manifold constitute a different engine? How about retain the heads/intake and fitting a new block? Or what happens if you keep just the block, but add in a stroker crank to 4.3 litres, new heads/intake and everything else. Is if really the same engine still? And it's the same for every item they list. Some gov sites say "any" welding to the chassis automaticaly requires inspection. So fitting a weld in rollcage to anything would trigger this. And of course, if you weld on a new rear cross member, or even plate a hole, this would appear to be covered by this, on face value. The most comprehensive answer I've seen online is a simple statement "only VOSA/DVLA can tell you if it needs inspecting or not". Thing is, I've never found out how you get to the point of being able to ask this, without taking it for an inspection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 on another note, can you fit a private plate to a Q plated vehicle? (normal private plate age rules permitting) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Â on another note, can you fit a private plate to a Q plated vehicle? (normal private plate age rules permitting)Â No. A friend wanted to do this on his "Assembled from parts not all of which are new" Marcos kit-car. DVLA said "Niet". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 on another note, can you fit a private plate to a Q plated vehicle? (normal private plate age rules permitting) Q plated vehicles cannot be re-registered onto any other reg number, they are stuck with the Q reg plate allocated, BUT if you have documentary evidence it might be possible to change from a Q reg https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/q-registration-numbers http://www.plates4less.co.uk/plates/search_Q-DVLA-prefix.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanger Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I agree and have thus far never found anything substantial on line. The main issue is, there is no definition of any of the parts or what they mean. Take the engine for example. Which bit would you need to keep? If you had say a 3.5 RV8. Would swapping the heads and/or intake manifold constitute a different engine? How about retain the heads/intake and fitting a new block? Or what happens if you keep just the block, but add in a stroker crank to 4.3 litres, new heads/intake and everything else. Is if really the same engine still? And it's the same for every item they list. Some gov sites say "any" welding to the chassis automaticaly requires inspection. So fitting a weld in rollcage to anything would trigger this. And of course, if you weld on a new rear cross member, or even plate a hole, this would appear to be covered by this, on face value. The most comprehensive answer I've seen online is a simple statement "only VOSA/DVLA can tell you if it needs inspecting or not". Thing is, I've never found out how you get to the point of being able to ask this, without taking it for an inspection. Engines are identified by the number, which is usually on the block. newer engines have numbers on heads etc. ah ok thankyou. DVLA say Get an age-related registration number You can apply for an age-related number if you can prove you’ve used 2 original major parts along with: a new monocoque bodyshell, chassis or frame from a specialist kit manufacturer an altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame from the original vehicle The registration number will be based on the age of the original vehicle. Your vehicle must pass the relevant type approval test to get an age-related registration number. https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/kitconverted-vehicles So under kit car rules the original chassis can be altered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 But you'd still need a test and to re-register it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallfry Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 But you'd still need a test and to re-register it. Yes indeed..........and note age related, and NOT the original number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 And I'm fairly sure it's a non transferable age related so no private plates either. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Even so it much better than a Q plate for an original looking motor. It means a recreation could if using the right parts look the job. I know that people who have made their motors legal through IVA wear their Q pllates as a badge of honesty with pride and I admire them for that, just don't like them on a chop or old looking vehicle/custom car. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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