Landrovernuts Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 A friend of mine has just bought a 110 double cab for his work and has an issue with it after starting from cold. It will start and idle perfect, then when you put your foot down nothing happens - it just idles (smoothly) then after a couple of minutes the revs slowly start to build up. If you leave it for a couple of minutes idling it is then fine to. It does this when cold or when it has been allowed to cool down. When it is warm no problem. We drove it from Dover back to the West Country and have to say it drove quite well, but now we have it back we have found a few issues with it such as the air flow meter is unplugged and plugging it back in it runs fine just gutless. That is first on the list of things to do! He has got receipts for the usual TD5 items that periodically need replacement which includes injector harness, injector seals, fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump replaced and the EGR has been blanked off. I have taken the red plug off the ECU and cleaned it out with electroclean, but to be honest there was oil there but not that much and a new fuel filter has just been put on. It is however at the back of my mind if cheap or bits from a blue box have been used that we could be replacing bits again! Obviously he is going to change the air flow meter, but just wondered if anyone have a fault code reader in the Exeter area who could just plug it in and check to see if there are any faults logged. I was going to take out the fuel pump (now has a hole cut in the rear tub) and just check the fuel pump filter as the fuel filter was full of rubbish. I was also going to check the fuel pressure to make sure it is coming straight up to pressure, but not sure where to put the gauge in - is there a test point? I have tested the fuel temperature sensor and the water temperature sender temperature resistance values (both are within limits which I have now forgotten) and the temperature gauge works fine. The throttle seems to have a fair amount of travel before anything actually happens and may be there is an issue with the throttle pedal, but cannot see the connection to the temperature. May just be how a TD5 is (I have a V8 and throttle response is instant!)? I was also going to get the injector codes while I change the rocker gasket (leaking) just to make sure if when we can get it plugged in the ECU has the correct codes input. If anyone has any ideas or a fault code reader please shout! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrovernuts Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Sorry forgot to mention that it is a 53 plate and a 15P engine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Have a look at the throttle-pedal; there are 2 potentiometers in one assembly, one pot generates a voltage that goes from low to high as the pedal's depressed, the other pot generates a voltage that goes from high to low. If the two voltages don't 'track' correctly the ECU won't give you anything more than idle. I've seen a case on a Defender where the factory-fitted water-leaks from the seal between the bulkhead and the windscreen and the door-pillar had dribbled all over the throttle potentiometer assembly and the resulting corrosion gave some _very_ bizarre throttle response. [some later TD5s actually have three potentiometers in the pedal-assembly. Count the number of wires going in - and if you need a replacement make sure you get the right one or it won't play properly with the ECU at all] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrovernuts Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Thanks - I will delve into this further as the drivers side bulkhead flap is slight twisted and will of course have leaked. He is putting this right now, but the hinge pins have seized solid which probably was the cause of the twist! Funny my 90 (1988) has large split pins in and the flap hinges and have never been an issue!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 If you haven't managed to borrow diagnostics by Sept.. (I know it's a long time away) I can come see you when I bring my daughter back to Uni in Exeter and plug my Nanocom in for you.... Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrovernuts Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Thanks Neil - I will bear that offer in mind if we do not get it sorted. The new air flow meter is on, but he is away for a couple of days so cannot let me know if it is any better yet. Still got the throttle pedal to investigate and the fuel pressure to check. Toby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrovernuts Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 Just a quick update as finally got to have a look at the truck. Still has no throttle response from cold despite idling perfectly and still has a large flat spot, but when revving seems to pull like a train. Fuel pressure is a constant 4.2 bar which seems fine, however when a clear hose was fitted in the fuel return there was large and very frequent air bubbles. This would appear to point to the injector seals. these were changed by the previous owner, but judging from his efforts on the brakes, I would question his ability to perform even the simplest tasks! The fuel filter head has been checked and appears fine and the filter air bleed valve has been replaced. Lets hope it is the injector seals as this would seem a cheap fault to fix. Incidentally the oil level does not rise and does not smell of diesel. Toby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrovernuts Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 Right Ladies and Gents - more help required! Injector seals replaced with genuine parts and engine runs well after a few minutes of idling. The owner reports power well and truly back. One problem solved. Starting still an issue, almost like the fuel system is full of air. I have pressure tested the head and fuel cooler fuel side this holds 4.2 bar for half an hour with no pressure drop. I have fitted a section of clear pipe in the fuel return and absolutely no air bubbles and so I am steering towards an injector or electrical (more injector if the truth be told). Sump levels not dropping or more importantly rising and there is no loss of coolant. Symptoms now turning over considerable turns before firing. When it does fire and start, it idles perfectly but when you put your foot down and try and bring it above idle it pours out white smoke which stinks of unburnt diesel. It is also very lumpy and you cannot drive it as it has no power. Give it a minute or two and it suddenly clears, revs cleanly and normal service resumes. At this time there is no air in the return line and the fuel pressure is also a constant 4.2 bar which is why I am thinking injector. I really want it plugged in to see if there is any fault codes and the owner is sort of believing me now! I am hoping he will do this next week while I am visiting two power stations in Turkey, however in the mean time has anyone any suggestions other than pulling the injectors and of course getting any fault codes? Toby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Give it half-a-dozen full fuel-system-prime sessions on the ignition key. [each cycle takes about 6 minutes; it'll shut off and tell you when each cycle's complete]. "Trapped wind" in a TD5 can cause all sorts of problems with bad starting and lumpy running at low RPM. On my 90TD5 it can take six or so prime-cycles and then 10 miles of "dragon-power" drive-it-like-you-stole-it to expel the bubbles after a standard fuel-filter swap. If the problem continues - well, sadly my instinct would be looking towards a head-crack between a combustion chamber and the high-pressure fuel channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 September is looming large and I'll be taking my daughter back to Exeter early in the month.... Lets keep in touch via PM and I'll plug my Nanocom in when we meet.... Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrovernuts Posted August 7, 2015 Author Share Posted August 7, 2015 Thanks Neil - I will keep in touch. I am trying to get it hooked up before then as I normally only get to work on it every other week due to my work travel requirements, but if he has not will get him to meet you as we are only 7 miles from the university. When I did the injectors there was evidence of at least two leaking sooty carp up into the fuel side and also one injector clamp not torqued up!!! Definitely monkeys have been in there before!!! I got the injector codes while in there just to check the ecu has the correct codes logged. Each injector (green top) has a number in brackets under the code which I am assuming was the original injector location? This engine has 1,2,2,3 and 4 and I am assuming that someone has replaced one sometime also they were in the wrong order (1 was in 5, 2 in 4 and 3 etc). While a cracked head could be a possibility, I am temporarily ruling this out with the fuel side pressure test (done with the engine in various different positions) and the no loss of coolant or rise in sump levels. Funny thing is I drove for about 100 miles not long ago and it did not miss a beat other than being slow (compared to my V8)!! Toby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Those numbers do not denote the location of the injectors. It's only important to make sure the codes are in the correct places in the ECU so the cylinders are balanced. The poor starting is still puzzling.... Try lots of purging as suggested... After that I'd be worried that the fuel pump was on the way out... Poor pressure / small leak could manifest problems in several ways. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1607 Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 I'm in Exeter and have a Haykeye if you want to plug it in? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrovernuts Posted August 7, 2015 Author Share Posted August 7, 2015 I will forget the numbers then! Done lots of purging and a new fuel filter, pump new, but of unknown origin. Despite its origin it maintains 4.2 bar fuel pressure even when starting and running under load, return line is also now completely air free which is more than can be said for before I did the injector seals! Despite these issues, I am quite taken by the truck and even more surprisingly so is my wife and we are now looking for a 110 crew cab at the right price. God help me, that will be three land rovers. Toby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrovernuts Posted August 7, 2015 Author Share Posted August 7, 2015 Dave - sent you a PM, but not sure if it sent or not! Yes please, when could you do it? The land rover lives out towards Longdown, but could bring it in tomorrow morning. Toby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1607 Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Haven't got your PM. I'm between Alphingtomn and St. Thomas but will be going to Whitestone tomorrow or Sunday so could easily pop out to Longdown. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrovernuts Posted August 7, 2015 Author Share Posted August 7, 2015 Dave - PM sent, hope it went this time! Toby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrovernuts Posted August 8, 2015 Author Share Posted August 8, 2015 Dave, thanks for your time today. We will check the airflow meter wiring after next week when I am home next as we are struggling to believe that three VDO air flow meters are faulty (may be!) and go from there. The starting issue will have to remain a mystery for a while to. I will check the glow plugs, but do not think this should be an issue as a TD5 should not need them especially at this time of year. Toby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Road Toad Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Did you check the crank signal on live data when it was plugged in to diagnostics? A poor or erratic signal could cause poor starting as can a dodgy starter motor, as these can cause erroneous crank signals when they start to fail. If you bump start it and it starts straight up then that points to the starter, but i would definately check the crank signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1607 Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Good point, we didn't check the crank signal but I believe a noisy crank signal should log a fault (but I might be wrong). The MAF was reading about 40 at idle but it is a brand new VDO so would expect it to be ok, we popped the lid off the air box but it still reads low. Toby, if you want to meet up again and check the crank signal let me know, did it drive any better with the MAF unplugged? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrovernuts Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 Not really sure as the roads are so small on the way back that it was hard to tell. Think John was going to leave it unplugged for a while to see and I will investigate the low MAF reading when I get home next week. As for checking the crank sensor, we could do that after I have checked the MAF wiring. I know it has had a new crank sensor, starter and battery just before we picked it up - according to the previous receipts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrovernuts Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 The saga continues, but think we are getting closer now!! We have both invested in a Nanocom as I am also about to own a TD5 and between the two of us it seemed a sound investment. No fault codes registering and all looking good (apart from low MAF still) when warm. However just after starting, while smoking as if it is on a 100 a day, the injector balance is all good apart from #2. The balance readings for 1, 3, 4 and 5 are -2 to +2 slightly fluctuating but looking good however #2 is reading +20!! So #2 is the problem, but why - sticking, bad connection? From the smoke, I am gathering that it is just chucking fuel in and then as it warms up it gradually comes back inline with the others. I am half inclined to get a single injector off ebay and try changing it. Any more thoughts? Toby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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