80" provenance and aesthetic query

[Anderzander]

Can I ask an opinion on something.

I'm fitting a 200tdi to my 80" for a few reasons, that include: the original engine has gone (it came with a 2.25) and I want to use it and the Tdi economy will help a lot with that.

I thought long and hard about what to do with the engine mounts and I've become comfortable with welding in 2.25 petrol ones. The angle on the later mounts was obviously adopted as it went a long way to removing vibration.

So my question is around the drivers side mount - I need to retain the small passenger side one as much as possible for the engine number, and initial thoughts are I can probably leave the whole thing and it look OK.

On the driver side though I'm thinking cut the large raised mount flush with the inside of the chassis and plate it over - the top bit remains as evidence of its past life - without looking messy I think ......... Or - just remove the whole thing so the new mount looks like it was always the one fitted.......

Perhaps a daft question for some - or a premise people disagree with more fundamentally for other - But for me it's getting a balance between looking 'right' and respecting the vehicle's history.

In a sense the plan is for the engine change to become part of the vehicles history - and I want a future owner to look and say: "it's been well done" and perhaps say "it looks a factory job"

Any thoughts anyone ?

[simonr]

I've done several engine swaps by fabricating new mounts to bolt on to the engine. Sure, they are a bit more complicated and granted, it's not always possible - but it does avoid potential IVA issues and keeps the vehicle so that it could be changed back to original if required in the future without any welding.

I don't have any objection to modifying a Land Rover - for me it's what they are about more than the current trend for concourse restorations, but it gives you an option.

Si

[missingsid]

Hm,

Tough question!

If they have to go and can't be used as Si suggests (best option for his reasons) then dilemma?

For looks then remove the lot and go factory finnish for sure, but IVA concerns (does it apply?) then modifying existing is not altering the actual chassis but a bit sticking out?

I have changed the fuel tank outrigger for a different design surely not a chassis mod?

Not really helpful sorry!

Marc

[Anderzander]

I must admit - I'd never thought about IVA. It seemed more of a bracket change than a chassis change - but I can see how it can be viewed as a chassis modification.

Where would I get a definitive response on it ?

The engine will fit with standard chassis mounts - but the drivers side chassis mount sits very high and thus close to the timing case on the 200tdi - so there is no room to put in an angled mount. With the flat mounts they do vibrate quite a bit.

[Anderzander]

Hmmm

I don't know if this is upto date: http://www.minimag.co.uk/files/2011/08/inf262.pdf

But that does refer to an 'unaltered chassis' and anything with a chassis modification needing an IVA. Points wise it would still be OK as the rest of the vehicle will remain standard - but I suppose it's the risk and fuss.

What to do .....

[simonr]

I got it from the horses mouth! I had a chat with one of the, then SVA inspectors who assured me it counted as a chassis modification - hense going for changing the mounts on the engine.

An option I have found to work well, including on a 200tdi, is to use front hockey stick bushes. Make a tube the bush will press in to and a clevis with a bolt through the middle of the bush. It means the engine is captive to the extent that it cannot move forwards or backwards and even if the rubber gives up the engine cannot escape! The bushes are quite complient and did a good job of not transmitting the vibration. Use OE Elastomer bushes, not PolyBushes unless you want your teeth to fall out!

I solved the mount being too high issue in one case by putting the bush below the mount - suspensed from it rather than sitting on top.

Si

[Anderzander]

Super helpful Si - thank you.

Though it's now looking like I wasted some money on engine mounts.

I'm going to borrow an engine crane and see what I can do. My plan is to start a thread for the 80 and seek help as I go along (albeit slowly).

Thank you again.

Stephen

[HoggyN]

I dare say a half decent lawyer could run rings around the IVA rules if it came to it. You wouldn't be altering the chassis, you would be altering the big bracket that the chassis is attached to, correctly termed the "frame".

[Snagger]

The DVLA told me that bracket alterations did not constitute chassis alteration, quite opposite to Si's experience, so it just depends on the individual tester. I think they'd have to be overzealous to pick up on a bracket, but Si's plan does make the best sense if you can do it for a number of reasons.

[discomikey]

Perhaps a daft question for some - or a premise people disagree with more fundamentally for other - But for me it's getting a balance between looking 'right' and respecting the vehicle's history.

In a sense the plan is for the engine change to become part of the vehicles history - and I want a future owner to look and say: "it's been well done" and perhaps say "it looks a factory job"

IMO, making the conversion look right is more respectful of the vehicles history than leaving bits of the old mount on there etc. if anyone suspects the chassis there are more telltales of its originality than just the engine mounts.

Like you say, do it right, do it once. if it looks factory its likely to have been done well with many things considered and therefore more likely to give you more enjoyment with less hassle further down the road.

As you can tell from my series, i'd rather a land rover worked for the owner than kept its originality (obviously with a couple of exceptions: HUE166 with a TDI would be a little rude for example) and as far as IVA, im no expert but i would have thought for all intents and purposes an engineers report and current MOT pass certificate should cover the legal issues?

for that factory installed look, the biggest difference is made by the wiring harness and the radiator hoses. and for that reason i would speak to Autosparks who could build you a factory looking harness for your vehicle and engine choice, and there is a guy on our favorite generic internet auction site who if sent a mock up cut and shut radiator hose, he can make them up one piece out of silicon to that shape, this in black would look quite smart, rather than jubilee clips and joins everywhere!