FridgeFreezer Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Ross - Whenever we had anything unbolted from the truck or about to go on the truck, we weighed it. If we didn't like the answer, lightness was added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 2 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said: Ross - Whenever we had anything unbolted from the truck or about to go on the truck, we weighed it. If we didn't like the answer, lightness was added Likewise... and the reason I bought a crane scale.... everything on the car I can lighten, I will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve200TDi Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 Well today I've been mostly weighing!! The front upper shock mounts are 4kg each, 8kg in total The rear upper shock mounts are 3kg each, 6kg in total The old shocks are 2.25kg each, 17kg in total The 4m of aluminium snorkel with some silicone bends was 3Kg So 34kg removed so far! I will obviously weigh the new shock mounts and new shocks when they arrive! I've also done the corner weights of the vehicle too to send off for the shocks to be built up. Weights are as follows with all existing body work, two people and some fuel: NSF: 458kg OSF: 462kg NSR: 352kg OSR: 386kg Total weight: 1770 So the front is very evenly distributed, but the rear is slightly different. Only thing I can see is the rear diff being slightly nearer the OSR as there isn't any particular 'thing' in that corner making it heavier. Jobs for tomorrow is further investigating/thinking of a new home for the air intake as I want a filter housing in the nearside area just in front of the footwell and behind the road wheel with a snorkel pipe going up the windscreen. I had thought about retrofitting/modifying a suitable donor, making my own using an off the shelf filter or buying a new truck air box..... And looking at the exhaust and maybe raising the fuel tank up slightly to try and get rid of the some of the heat. Even adding some extra heat shielding as the fuel tank still gets mighty hot even though it stays running all day. Cooler fuel is always better and I may even get a few horsepowers back! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 So it weighs about as much as a factory 109? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Rear diff pumpkin may be some of that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Looking at your pictures on the previous page, what about moving the fuel cell further back? Not only is there the obvious heat from the exhaust underneath it, but its also right below the radiator, so essentially caught in between two heat sources. Another benefit would be to get some more weight towards the back, which judging by your corner weights wouldn't hurt? If it was me I'd seriously reconsider raising it even the slightest bit, not only do you wan't as low a COG as possible for your use, but that is also the worst kind of weight to get up high as its a sloshing fluid, making body roll worse and more unpredictable. Now obviously I can't get the full picture of what is possible and what isn't from a few pics, so feel free to throw my nonsense down the drain if need be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 My 2p: -drill holes in the sumpguard. -remove the wheelspacers, have lighter wheels -hollow panhards -fabricated panhard mounts to replace that horrible casting -drilled radius arms if you dont have them -fueltank: I would drop it lower,every mm you can get, perhaps take a cut out of it for diff clearance. further back would not be my preference for safety and stability reasons Also, it looks like your tank mounts are a bit substantial Are you ever grounding out at the bottom? maybe lower the ride height a bit? Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Damn, do you need all of this plate? Maybe replace for HDPE plastic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Need tree sliders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I'm sorry Daan, but I don't see how moving the fuel tank further away from the passenger compartment is less safe? Sure if you were to hang it out over the bumper so it would be the first point of impact, but I didn't mean that far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve200TDi Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Thank you for all your comments so far. So I'm sensing that it could be a bit on the heavy side! It is true that for comp safari racing you don't need all this underbody protection, so I could remove all the central stuff and replace with just a small bar that runs down the middle over the gearbox and transfer box. Regarding the fuel tank, yes I can move it, but I don't have the facilities to modify it and at this early stage it's quite a work up. As it did a few winch challenges in the past it has grown slightly, so yes i could remove the wheel spacers, but I still like the tree sliders! I could change the panhard rod castings for something more racy, but that is probably a job for once everything else is done! Regarding ride height I could lower it a bit as it does appear to sit quite high (gap between bump stop and axle) compared to my 90. I did also work out that the boot and bonnet weight roughly 30kg and 25kg respectively. Right, any thoughts about air intake! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Two batteries? That big silencer will be heavy, I guess there are noise restrictions but a straight through item would be a lot lighter, albeit louder. Front recovery swivels? Guess not needed any more... I'd also look at getting different wheels, with a better offset, nothing awful about spacers, but they are extra weight. For raised intake, do you go swimming? An RRC air box can be hooked up very easily with a touch of welding up, they are small, light and cheap as not a defender item for the pipe, aluminium or stainless will be almost as light as something plastic, but of course stronger. Southdown still make their pipes/tops/hose and sell on eBay, if that's what you want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandog Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) It's a belter. Same as what's towing it!!! Brian James trailer, WANT ONE! And the red defender Edited February 10, 2017 by Bandog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve200TDi Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Bowie69 said: Two batteries? That big silencer will be heavy, I guess there are noise restrictions but a straight through item would be a lot lighter, albeit louder. Front recovery swivels? Guess not needed any more... I'd also look at getting different wheels, with a better offset, nothing awful about spacers, but they are extra weight. For raised intake, do you go swimming? An RRC air box can be hooked up very easily with a touch of welding up, they are small, light and cheap as not a defender item for the pipe, aluminium or stainless will be almost as light as something plastic, but of course stronger. Southdown still make their pipes/tops/hose and sell on eBay, if that's what you want? Very true - I probably don't need two batteries! And yes the silencer is a little bigger than I wanted, but it was cheap! And running a straight pipe is a little loud for my ears! I may end up looking into a different box. I was thinking of relocating the box to the back and using a rear box off a 200tdi 90 as the in and out are on the same side. Yes, front recovery points may not be needed, but I still would like to pop to slindon on the odd occasion and so still being able to fit a winch and be able to use it is still on my list of requirements. Regarding the snorkel, it was more the worry about water splashing in if I go through a puddle at speed. If I had the air intake at the front, where there's loads of space, it could be vulnerable. So I thought an air box in the nearside area with a pipe going up and over the windscreen would suit. So I've been thinking about the weight problem and here's a few thoughts: - The weight doesn't include all the central skid plates! - The fuel tank is made of rather thick material! - Standard 4.2 rover V8 with tubular exhaust manifolds onto a 4 speed auto and borg warner transfer box. - Standard internal rover axles. - Radius arms, standard wide on front, thin on rear with speed holes. - Range rover chassis with steel rollcage of unknown thickness. - Aluminium body panels. - Discovery steel wheels which are heavy yet robust. Apart from that its just seats, wiring, radiators and dash! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Being a V8 you don't even need all of one battery, you can start it with a packet of Duracell AA's. I had an old Mini Metro battery in the 109 for a long time, never struggled. As the truck is dual-purpose (winch challenge / play + racing) I can see some compromises might be needed but you could, for example, make all that under-armour a quick bolt-on piece (if you really need it), likewise tree sliders could be made removable, 2nd battery could be a quick plug-in on andersen connectors with an easy-to-undo clamp. Do you need a big fuel tank? Does it need to be steel? Plastic boat tanks are available in all shapes & sizes. Factory air intakes / boxes are cunningly designed to not ingest water from hitting puddles at 50mph, all you need is enough of a cowling / guard to deflect the worst. Snorkel pipe could be removable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve200TDi Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Just to clear up the weight issue! The 1770kg did include two people at 140kg combined and one battery! So vehicle weight is 1530kg. Yes the underbody skid plates at relatively easy to remove so I might run the first couple of events with them off to see what cooling is like around the fuel tank. Regarding all the other bits and pieces, I'm grateful for all your suggestions, but it seems a lot of effort for little gain. So I will do the easy fixes and go racing! This is not going to be in the garage all year! On another note I have some shiney shock hoops arriving on Monday Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Skimming back through the thread (apologies if you've changed stuff since) and putting on my best Jez impression: You have 3 front recovery points. Why? Also, swivelly ones are heavy for what they are. Front clamshell is steel & ali - one-piece paper-thin glass fibre (or kevlar or carbon) would be my choice, it's only cosmetic. Ditto rear clamshell. Is it even needed at all? Tree sliders AND reinforced sills is overkill. Do tree sliders need to be bomb-proof? Your fuel tank is vast. Surely you only need enough for one stage flat out plus a bit for luck? How many miles of heavy rubber flexible radiator hose have you got? Could straight runs be stainless or ali? Your batteries are huge and high up. There are many assorted brackets, tangs and mounts on your chassis and roll cage. Cut them all off & weigh the casualties. You appear to have two sets of average shock absorbers. Buy one set of really good ones. Cut the other brackets off & weigh them. Why is one of your steering bars so very heavy? And why is it the one that matters less? Why does your racer have lights? If you need them for something else, make them removable on a multi-plug. WTF is this slab of material above your exhaust? Unless that's a winch mount it has no business on your car. If it *is* a winch mount it doesn't need to be 10mm thick solid. Also, why does the exhaust bother wrapping up & round the rear member when it could go straight out (or end sooner, saving space, heat and weight)? Why have you got that vast and heavy stock silencer on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve200TDi Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 2 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said: Skimming back through the thread (apologies if you've changed stuff since) and putting on my best Jez impression: You have 3 front recovery points. Why? Also, swivelly ones are heavy for what they are.Very true, they could come off! Front clamshell is steel & ali - one-piece paper-thin glass fibre (or kevlar or carbon) would be my choice, it's only cosmetic. New body work is in the pipe line, but that maybe a job for next winter as it's quite time comsuming. Ditto rear clamshell. Is it even needed at all? True, as long as I have wheel arches then It's not really needed! Tree sliders AND reinforced sills is overkill. Do tree sliders need to be bomb-proof? I like them and they're a handy aid to getting in (I'm getting old you know!) Your fuel tank is vast. Surely you only need enough for one stage flat out plus a bit for luck? Again, if I had endless time and money I could make it lower and small, but it's what I've got, so I'll stick with it. How many miles of heavy rubber flexible radiator hose have you got? Could straight runs be stainless or ali? Not much at all, but could be looked at in the future as I think some of it is steel! Your batteries are huge and high up. True, I could relocate battery lower down and only use a small one! There are many assorted brackets, tangs and mounts on your chassis and roll cage. Cut them all off & weigh the casualties. Yes, I'll do this as there are bits that are redundant! You appear to have two sets of average shock absorbers. Buy one set of really good ones. Cut the other brackets off & weigh them. You've missed it! I've chopped all shock mounts off and await arrival of new shiney goodness....watch this space! Why is one of your steering bars so very heavy? And why is it the one that matters less? True, maybe I could swap it with the 90 and save some weight! Why does your racer have lights? If you need them for something else, make them removable on a multi-plug. It doesn't have front headlights anymore, I want some stickers of headlights to go over the holes! WTF is this slab of material above your exhaust? Unless that's a winch mount it has no business on your car. If it *is* a winch mount it doesn't need to be 10mm thick solid. Also, why does the exhaust bother wrapping up & round the rear member when it could go straight out (or end sooner, saving space, heat and weight)? Why have you got that vast and heavy stock silencer on? It's just to stop mud coming in, so it can be removed! Yes, I'm too thinking that this new silencer I've bought is just a little too big, I'll need something, just smaller! And yes then it could exit in front of the axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Just re-looking at that photo, how f***ing thick are your armour plates underneath the sides??? What are you protecting under the driver's ar5e that requires a sheet of ~10mm plate? Ref tree sliders, they're strong enough to be sills, so why have reinforced box sills just inboard of that tubework? You could even make the cab wider for more comfort... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 8 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said: WTF is this slab of material above your exhaust This is the more in your face version of what I was trying to say.... Soren, the fuel tank really should be inboard as far as possible; 2 possible scenarios I can think of being doing an end over end roll and the tank getting hit by something. Also the more obvious problem of clown comp safari drivers tailgating you, resulting in a similar result. I wouldnt worry about it being close to you, hell the last time I went karting there was a tank between my legs! Looking at the picture, a tank half the size of what you have, and you could drop it about 10 inches to the bottom level of the framerails, sitting in between the propshaft and the lh chassis rails. suitable protection around it and you c of g will improve significantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 My tomcat was 1840kg in road trim including spare wheel but excluding driver. So yes you can still loose some but your not to bad. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve200TDi Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) Right, more progress made, but I'm still chopping bits off and dismantling! After a lengthy chat with Paul from Tomcat Motorsport, who was very helpful and knowledgeable, two tubular shock hoops arrived! After a little bit more grinding they fitted perfectly on the front. However this wasn't going to be the case for the rear as the rear roll cage stays were in the way. I've come up with a plane for this and some 38.1mm tube arrived today....... With the shocks ordered I decided to concentrate on the new air intake system. The previous system was very long, very long! So I removed the 4m of ali pipe and thought about what I wanted to do. There was a convenient space in front of the passenger foot well for an air box. My plan was (in reverse) to have it come out of the engine through the MAF sensor into an air box and up the windscreen and across the roof. I thought about making an air box, but it's very time consuming, the likes of Ali sport could probably make something, but I haven't got the money for that! So I thought about finding an existing air box that I could modify. I would have to be the right size and I could get by with changing the in and out's with welding or fiberglass. So looking on ebay for a while I came up with an air box from a Mitsubishi Pajero, I inquired about size and it seemed to be about right! So this turned up! So I trimmed the brackets off and removed the rubber hose (which later would come in handy!) and offered it up. I had a position in mind, but rotating it round I managed to find a position where I wouldn't need to modify the air box at all. The only modification I needed to do was to rotate the outlet pipe 180 degrees which just involved drilling the spot welds out. It's an all metal construction air box which takes a flat oval air filter costing around £10. And trimmed the rubber hose to utilise for the snorkel. As you can see, yet more bonnet modification will be needed for the air box as well as the shock turrets. I'm going to stick with it and look into making a new bonnet at the end of the season. Am I still on schedule for the first SCOR race on the 12 March.......Hmmmm I don't think so , but it'll be done when it's done. Next target is race in April! Steve Edited February 22, 2017 by steve200TDi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Good job there! Tidy air box for sure. Off a 2.8TD I guess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve200TDi Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Bowie69 said: Good job there! Tidy air box for sure. Off a 2.8TD I guess? Thanks! It's tidier than expected, just got a few silicone hoses on order and I will be able to compete the installation! Yes, 2.8TD, so being off a boost engine I thought the air flow requirements would be about right! Time will tell I guess! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Tidy job for sure! And very easy to service the way you've fitted it If flow isn't enough you can probably get a more free flowing filter element for it. usually there's plenty of flow in 4x4 air boxes IMO, but then again you do go through a lot of air at full tilt with that engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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