User_Friendly Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Hello everyone. I'm looking for some help and advice. Recently I gave my Defender 110 Td5 to a mechanic to have the calipers, disks and pads replaced. At some point he has caused damage to the transmission because when I change gear 1,2,3,4 not 5th there is a clank/chatter noise and driving in high gears 4/5 at low speed (30-35mph) there is a constant noise/chatter from the transmission. Any ideas ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 As he was doing a brake service did he adjust the transmission brake at the same time? If so it may be that which is now binding a bit - check for heat from the drum after driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User_Friendly Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 Thanks for your response but no, it not the transmission brake, he didn't touch that. I supplied him with upgraded parts, all he had to do was the change over. I did however see him drive it (via on-board dash cam) drive it off the lift, reverse it out of his garage and drive it forward where it came to a sudden halt with a bang sound, he reversed it bang, drove forward and bang again. He did this several times (before he turned off the engine and camera), something must have been put out of sync and now it seems that the gearbox is damaged. The next recording I have I (6 minutes later) is of him driving it along the road. Any Ideas what he did wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh NZ Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Almost sounds like it had diff lock engaged.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Can you post up the vid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Someone engaging the handbrake (not realising its a transmission brake) can cause a nice bang. You'd expect a mechanic to know better though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User_Friendly Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 Thank you for the responses, as a newbie if I'm allowed to post it...this is the Vid : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deHPvzxsd-s&feature=youtu.be It doesn't show his face so I think it should be OK to upload. I'm pretty sure I hear him engage the handbrake/transmission brake by 3 clicks when he reverses it off the ramp but I don't know if he releases it. What damage can be done (the rattling/chattering sound) if the diff lock or handbrake were engaged ? Thanks you everyone for your help and comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 It does sound like the transmission brake engaging to me. It may not have been properly disengaged causing the shoes to catch in the drum (gives a loud bang and shudder). At that speed I can't imagine it'd do much damage, may be worth stripping the drum off and checking the shoes. It all depends on the state of other driveline components as to whether it may damage UJs/transfer box or diff internals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 At around 10 secs it does sound like he biefly stops it on the transmission brake but he must have released it for the vehicle to then be able to drive out backwards on tickover without any undue drama or noises. Whatever causes the first bang and stop at 42 secs appears to release at 48 secs. I think I hear propshaft and diff clunk on the second lockup and it's interesting to note that it seems to lock again when in reverse & under power. I'd be tempted to say it's the transmission brake being appliad sharply but he sounds too surprised on the first bang to have been doing it himself. Could be several things, brake, diffs etc. Has it locked up like that since the video? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Very odd. I wouldnt have thought thats anything to do with the difflock - hardly likely to lock up in that short distance even if it was on - especially since, apart from one turn, it was back and forth in a straight line. Could be all those Jack Russells running around and a few of them getting under the wheels?! As above though - is it still doing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Does your handbrake warning light work? Should be one on a td5 era? The warning lights are easily obscured by a forearm, is it worth asking your mechanic if he drove it with the handbrake on? You have footage that it made the noise, if he admits it then it confirms the problem and narrows the places to check for damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User_Friendly Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 Thank you everyone for your comments. No. This has not happened to me since I got it back last Saturday. But there is a definite "clank/chatter" changing gears, especially second to third and again when I'm reversing and press in the clutch. I driven it some distance and felt the transmission drum but it isn't warm so brake shoe binding seems unlikely. Between 30-35 mph and at 45mph there is a definite "chatter" noise. Also today I noticed after driving 40 miles that I could hear the "chatter" in nuetral gear and seemed to "chatter" more with slight acceleration while in neutral. I agree with everyone it does seem that he "forgot" he had the handbrake applied - it seems that way - But could the bangs be something else? I'm also beginning to wonder if the springs in the clutch plate could now be somehow loose causing the current noise or does anyone think it could be gearbox bearings or something else. Again, everyone thank you very much for your help and support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 The vehicle appears to roll too freely to suggest the transmission brake was applied at the time. As for clutch springs are you getting a rattle as the engine stops after turning it off. Have you tried putting the transfer box into neutral and going through the main gears to see if the noise still exists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User_Friendly Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Thank you for your response. OK. The Defender is putting out 220 HP due to upgrades I applied, ecu etc, so it's very powerful and can pull against the handbrake. I've replicated what he did by applying the handbrake and sure enough the result (band/shudder) is the same. Thank you all for alerting me to this through the video. I've recovered the next video and sure enough he does the same thing several more times on his driveway. He replaced the calipers, discs and pads so he may have been using the handbrake to stop as the new brakes may have been soft and needed to bed in OR was he trying to deliberately cause damage for more work/money out of me ? I'm not getting any rattle after I switch off the engine. Putting the transfer box into neutral and going through the main gears to see if the noise still exists gives no result. The noise I'm experiencing (apart from the vibration mentioned earlier) occurs when I press in the clutch between gear changes. Any further thoughts ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Could be highly coincidental that the clutch release bearing is giving up the ghost or the springs on the friction plate are rattling. Given that you are running +50% horsepower and lord knows how much of a torque increase then it may just be on its way out. My HD clutch has a little rattle to it, it's a common thing from what I've read and it has done this since its rebuild so it doesn't concern me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Are you sure the rattle wasn't there before and that you aren't hearing it now because you are paying more than normal attention to it? I know that's what i would be like - suddenly every sound is something that is about to drop off of the car! I doubt, if it was the handbrake that it will have done any real 'damage' so as Scott says, this could be coincidental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I would sugest that if you can drive, and have driven, through the transmission brake when applied then it too needs looking at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User_Friendly Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Thanks everyone. I moved the defender about 12 inches forward and 12 inches back to check the band/shudder thing. So I haven't driven it with the handbrake on and I'm positive that the handbrake is fine. I performed all the work on it myself, over the Summer, through all the upgrades (there are many modifications, about £6000 sterling worth) and I'm familiar with it, so noticing something now that I hadn't spotted before hasn't happened. I noticed the noise because I pay attention to it and despite it's HP and torque I actually drive it carefully. I decided it needed the extra power for launching and retrieving a heavy boat and I haven't even done that yet (my boat is another project). The only reason I very reluctantly gave it to someone else was because I don't have a pillar lift to change out the braking system for the upgraded performance parts I supplied to him. Fact is I noticed the noise in the transmission upon changing gears the first time I drove it after getting it back and it definitely wasn't there before he worked on it and drove it some. I'm no expert and I don't claim to be and I don't have experience of defender clutch friction spring damage or gearbox/drive train damage and I'm hoping for possible answers here before I have to resort to removing the gearbox, clutch etc. and dismantling them to find out what I need to fix/change. Again though I don't have a pillar lift or lifting crane and I don't want another mechanic/salesman to tell me I need a new gearbox etc. if I only need to replace a part. I'd happily upgrade to a HD clutch if the current springs/clutch were the issue. Today I checked the UJ's and they're OK. My next move is to remove the PTO plate and check for spline wear. Any other suggestions ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User_Friendly Posted September 18, 2015 Author Share Posted September 18, 2015 Mystery Solved. Two separate issues: Noise upon changing gears: damage to half shaft splines and flanges (due to inappropriate handbrake application) - all going to be replaced - by me. Vibration Noise: An exhaust hanging retainer touching the body sending vibrations into flex joint - a rubber shim now separates the retainer from the body and no more vibration noise. Thank you all for your efforts and support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 The "damage to halfshaft splines/drive flanges" following transmission-brake application - yes, you can't really blame that on your mechanic - the same sort of loads could easily have been applied during a MoT test. I'd see this as having given you a fortuitous early-warning that the parts were weak/failing anyway. They could, after all, have gone 'bang!' when you had to park-up-and-get-out on a 1-in-4 hill with 3.5 Tons of laden trailer hitched to your crossmember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User_Friendly Posted September 18, 2015 Author Share Posted September 18, 2015 Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jode Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 When LR launched the defender they sung its praises for a variety of improvements, however one item - running dry drive shafts/drive hubs - was a definite step backwards. The series landies run the drive flange/hub in oil, whereas the defenders have an oil seal that prevents diff oil getting to the hub. A popular upgrade down-under is to remove the "new" seal and replace the stub-axle-to-wheel seal with that used on the series vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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