NP435's

[Dave64]

Hi All,

Read somewhere or other about the bloke who has been adapting New Process 435 transmissions to Landrover/Range Rover engines. I may have misread the article, but have the feeling that he was talking about early girl petrol 4's and 6's.

My question is twofold, was the Isuzu 2.5L TDI engine used in Landrovers? I know that they were used in the 1993 Range Rovers with 5 speed manuals. Were they any good? A mate of mine parted one out (1993 R/R) and I inherited the engine in pretty good nick, along with the bellhousing and clutch fork, slave cylinder. Somebody else snaffled the transfer case and I know where the 5 speed box is hidden, but I believe it is pretty sad.

Toying with the idea of trying to adapt an NP435 (have both the Ford and Dodge versions) to the Isuzu Diesel. Not worried about transmission to transfer case adaptation, only tranny to engine. Anyone know if it's been attempted before?

Cheers, Dave64

[BogMonster]

I don't think an Isuzu was ever used in the RR by the factory. It was a VM diesel in the original Turbo D, and then later replaced with the Tdi engine. I'd say it would have been a retro-fit.

[elbekko]

I think the Isuzu engine was a dealer retrofit in Australia only?

[Dave64]

Hi Men,

Possibly that's why I am finding so many problems finding out anything about that engine!

If it was an Australian only instillation, would the VIN numbers or the engine number itself have any way of positively identifying it? The bloke who gave me the engine also gave me a link to a site in the UK, but although it identifies the body type, transmission, year build etc, when it comes to what engine installed, it only states "2.5L TDI" and then in brackets, "200/300". Not a word about who supplied the engine itself, be it VM, Isuzu or whoever.

Thanks, Dave 64

[western]

Isuzu were factory fit to 110's in Australia for Aus military, don't know if it was fitted in civilian models.

[Bowie69]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_Perentie

3.9l engine... pretty drastic changes otherwise.

[BogMonster]

Hi Men,

Possibly that's why I am finding so many problems finding out anything about that engine!

If it was an Australian only instillation, would the VIN numbers or the engine number itself have any way of positively identifying it? The bloke who gave me the engine also gave me a link to a site in the UK, but although it identifies the body type, transmission, year build etc, when it comes to what engine installed, it only states "2.5L TDI" and then in brackets, "200/300". Not a word about who supplied the engine itself, be it VM, Isuzu or whoever.

Thanks, Dave 64

2.5L Tdi and 200/300 both point to the Land Rover engine. The 200Tdi was fitted in the Discovery from 1989 to 1994, 300Tdi from 1994 to 1998, but not sure about Range Rovers. I do know they had both 200s and 300s at different times, because I have seen both, and it seems unlikely that they would have popped an Isuzu engine in between them in 1993, so I'd still guess it is a retrofit or Aus market only.

If the VIN number is SALLxxxFxxx then the F should mean it was originally a Tdi engine.

[Dave64]

Hi All,

Just to try and clarify for my own peace of mind, dug up a few more numbers to identify the engine mentioned above.

Has a casting number/letter combo of HRC 2020 towards the rear of the block, right hand (drivers) side abou t a third of the way up from the sump line. Under that has casting letters D J A .

Engine number is S12L 00741 A. On left rear of the block has what looks like a pyramid with the top flattened with the letters either 'EB' or 'FB' inside it.

The turbocharger has the following on the tag;- WF0681A, then under that:-465175-1, bottom line:-ETC 7461.

That's about all the numbers/letters I can find. It still has a fuel filter, Ryco Z533 and an oil filter Ryco Z89A. Tried cross referencing them with Ryco, but came up with a myriad of other filter numbers, but nothing which may determine which particular engine application.

I could even have the wrong engine manufacturer, it may indeed be a VM and not an Isuzu at all! I am only going on what I was told when given the engine!

Thanks, Guys.

Dave64

[Dave64]

Went to that site designating the "F" under engine, all it is telling me is that it is '2.5L diesel 200/300TDI', But NOT who the engine manufacturer is, or was.

Thanks, Dave64

[Boydie]

Isuzu 2.5 and 3.9 litre Tdi's are/were factory fitted in the Australian Army version of the Defender. The 2.5 fitted in the standard 110 body and the 3.9 turbo in the extended 6 wheeler version.

[Lewis]

All of the Australian military land rovers had 3.9 Isuzu engines fitted, none had 2.5's. The difference was that the 110's had 3.9 NA whilst the 6x6's had the 3.9turbo

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_Perentie

[Boydie]

I have a 4BD1-T sitting in my man shed, along with a brand new unused and still crated South American 2.5tdi (which I got at a fire sale price off a bankrupted import company), the Isuzu was "inherited" from a guy intent on fitting a Chevy/GMH Holden 5 litre V8 into his Perentie and I got it for a song.

The hassles of fitting the Isuzu into the Disco are enormous however, new relocated engine mounts, new radiator, exhaust system, clutch and gearbox mating etc. but who knows, one day if I win lotto I may just pay someone to do the conversion. The idea of 3.9 turbo'd litres is attractive.

[hangover]

Boydie are you sure that 2.5 is not in fact a HS2.8 ? As said there were no 2.5 Isuzu's fitted to Aus Landy's, only the 4BD1 and 4BDTt in certain Perentie models.

Plenty of 4BD powered RRC's and 110's on AULRO and even 1 guy with one in his D1, easy to fit if you use the LT95/LT85 or now the isuzu MSA box is being mated to the LT230.

[Boydie]

Hangover, no, according to the label on the crate it's a 2.5 Tdi - a complete engine less alternator and power steering pump and A/C. compressor, it appears to be a ECU controlled engine as it has a few electrical connections on the FIP that if and when I get around to putting it in my Disco will be removed, it cost me AUD$1500. The 4BD1-T came out of a dual rear axle six wheeler Perentie. The guy I bought it off thought it was totally gutless and is/was intent on fitting a Holden 5 litre V8 in it. He might get more HP but he won't get the same bottom end torque.

[BogMonster]

Hi All,

Just to try and clarify for my own peace of mind, dug up a few more numbers to identify the engine mentioned above.

Has a casting number/letter combo of HRC 2020 towards the rear of the block, right hand (drivers) side abou t a third of the way up from the sump line. Under that has casting letters D J A .

Engine number is S12L 00741 A. On left rear of the block has what looks like a pyramid with the top flattened with the letters either 'EB' or 'FB' inside it.

The turbocharger has the following on the tag;- WF0681A, then under that:-465175-1, bottom line:-ETC 7461.

That's about all the numbers/letters I can find. It still has a fuel filter, Ryco Z533 and an oil filter Ryco Z89A. Tried cross referencing them with Ryco, but came up with a myriad of other filter numbers, but nothing which may determine which particular engine application.

I could even have the wrong engine manufacturer, it may indeed be a VM and not an Isuzu at all! I am only going on what I was told when given the engine!

Thanks, Guys.

Dave64

12L is a Land Rover 200Tdi engine. Home grown motor, not a VM or Isuzu. That would fit with a 1993 RR.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_engines#200Tdi_.28Engine_Code_11L.2C_12L_and_13L.29

Take a photo of it (or several) and post on here.

[Dave64]

Thanks for the heads up, Men!

I have only just unloaded it and moved it into the shed, so will go out in the next few days and take some happy snaps. Then all i have to work out is how to post the photos!

Computers are NOT my long suit!

Cheers, Dave64

[Dave64]

OK, Guys!

Took a few photos, hopefully come through. Cheers, Dave64

[Landy-Novice]

thats a 200tdi, that spec was fitted to the discovery and range rover as it has the low mounted turbo.

[Lewis]

As above, not an Isuzu engine

[Dave64]

Thanks Men!

Now it looks like being positively identified as the 200 TDI engine, going by the Wikipedia mob it was built by Range Rover/land Rover in their own factory. Actually, this engine received quite a good report, available in turbo/non turbo, turbo intercooled? Correct?

Thanks again, Cheers

Dave64

[Lewis]

No, only available in turbo intercooled from factory.

It's a Land Rover designed and built engine, there were two variants of 200tdi - those fitted to defenders (with high mounted turbo) and those fitted to discovery's and range rovers (with low mounted turbo, like yours). Fitted from 1989 to some time in early 94. After this time the 300tdi was fitted, which was effectively a development of the 200tdi, until approx 1998 when the five cylinder td5 engine replaced it in most markets, while the 300tdi continued to be fitted to military vehicles and those for the developing world.

The 200 and 300 are very popular in the UK, and many have been retrofitted into earlier defenders and series, especially in the last ten years as the value of rusty discovery's dropped and the conversion became economically viable. The engine conversion is fairly simple as the gearboxes in series and defenders fitted with the earlier 4cylinder engines are compatible with the tdi. Some people have fitted them without intercoolers and some even without turbo's, especially into series vehicles as they prefer the simpler plumbing

I have a discovery 200tdi (like yours) retrofitted in my defender 90

[BogMonster]

The 200 is an excellent engine. A bit noisy, but built very solidly and still (just) in the days before engineers got over-ruled by accountants. It was Land Rover's answer to the fact that for most of the 1980s they'd been wheezing along with the naturally asthmatic 2.5 engines, while the Japanese had cruised ahead due in part to much better engines.

[Dave64]

Thanks Lewis, Bogmonster and all others that gave me a chop-out.

I like that adaptation of yours, Lewis. neat fit. I am still unsure of which way to jump as now that it seems a relatively simple conversion to the earlier Land Rover gearbox, I am thinking about taking it one step further and adapting that 200TDI engine to the Ford NP435 transmission for a project. Apparently it has been done many times before, getting onto the blokes who did it may take some time.

I am only concerned with the engine to transmission at this stage, NOT the NP435 to any type of transfer case.

The ones I have seen seem to have used either an adapter plate bolted to either the back of the block, or, to that alloy spacer that is already bolted there. Seen one where a bloke in the states used such an adapter plate, machined the faces, drilled it out and used the existing Ford bell housing. Being much shorter, had to modify the input shaft. But, looks like can and has been done before. If you maintained that alloy R/Rover spacer plate at the back of the engine, you would utilise the existing starter motor. Clutch plate itself is no big deal, as you can just about get any type of plate made up these days. I have had metric centres put into 11 inch O/D clutch plates when fitting Toyota Dyna box to Rambler 343 V8. Ford hydraulic clutch fork, may have to modify the clutch release bearing or sleeve, not insurmountable, just have to nut it out or find someone who is willing to share a bit of experience.

Cheers, Dave64

[Boydie]

"It's a Land Rover designed and built engine" - My information is that the 200 and 300Tdi engines were designed by Perkins Engineering Ltd. - under a comprehensive design brief from Land Rover due to their (Perkins):-

1.) Perkins extensive experience in diesel engine design and

2.) They were a British firm (tax benefits?) and

3.) Perkins had some connections to Land Rover.

On the 300Tdi several cost saving changes were made by LR due to the high cost of manufacturing the engine, these revisions including the deletion of the hydraulic valve lifters in favour of the simpler, and cheaper, conventional manual tappet adjustment, another was the timing belt cover vent line was deleted (the casting is still evident on early casings).

Any corrections or comments ?

[Lewis]

Dave64, the aluminium spacer you refer to is actually the flywheel housing - it holds the rear crank seal, starter, and fixes through the sump ladder frame. Replacing it with something else would be a lot of hard work, I would think it easier to build off the back of it

Boydie, I don't know whether that's a accurate, but neither 200 or 300 has hydraulic lifters, nor a timing case breather. Also, the tdi was not a new engine from the ground up - it's yet another development of the 4cylinder 2.25 engine, it seems unlikely a sub-contracted engine manufacturer would suffer that compromise

I think you have been given misinformation, probably confused by the project iceberg diesel development of the Buick v8 which Perkins may have been involved with