LC 80 Series Axles or Upgrade LR Versions

[Boris113]

I am after a little bit of advice regarding axles.

The shed is now filling up with rubbish and the challenge-prepped 90 has to go, to be honest it was a silly impulse buy but time off work with Malaria and eBay clearly don't work together On the plus side, it was cheap and the nice accessories were worth more than than the vehicle's price.

It sits on Toyota Land Cruiser 80 series axles that have been modified to accept standard LR suspension mounts/linkages. These axles are the later type with bigger brakes and electronic locking diffs which all work perfectly. The rebuilt 90 (which will not be sold) sits on standard disco 24spline axles with good condition internals.

So the question being, should I shift the challenge 90 with the LC axles and then fit Ashlockers and strengthened internals to the rebuilt 90 over a period of time or nail the LC80 axles onto the rebuilt 90 and save approx £2K?

My concerns predominantly being the reliability, strength and parts supply of the LC 80 axles of which I know very little about, are they a more reliable and stronger set-up than LR Ashcrofts axles?

Any advice is much appreciated, clearly if I can save 2 grand that will be a bit of a bonus but wanted to be sure it was the right way to go about it.

Thanks in advance,

Harry

[Bowie69]

Toyota axles any day, even more so as they are pre-converted and the lockers are working.

Only thing you breaknis a CV, and Long field make HD replacements for them in the states, for and never break anything again.

Parts availability for Toyota's is very good, especially through main dealer.

[Boris113]

Thanks Bowie, that seems to reinforce my thoughts Had a look around on Google and a lot of people seem to have done it, especially judging from old posts in this forum.

The lockers are working but are slow to engage, hopefully a quick strip-down of the solenoids to check/free them up, reassemble with some sealant and extended breathers should do the trick. I've read that bigger relays in the wiring can help so will look into that.

The diff ratios are a little lower but not majorly and the output shafts have already been adapted to take LR props so it's seems the logical route to go. Not too worried about CVs for now, it will only run 285 Fedimas until some bigger boots come up at the right price, if the CVs go pop then they can be upgraded in due course.

All of the brackets have been done on a jig apparently, the welding looks good and the vehicle handles well on the road with no death wobbles so that reassures me of the conversion quality

The only thing to sort is the track rod which normally catches on LR radius arms, the previous owner took a grinder to the underside of the radius arms to get clearance so need to look at redesigning those.

Harry

[Cynic-al]

If you've already got them and they're performing ok then stick with the Toyotas. If you go back to LR axles with Ashcroft internals then if / when they fail you can only buy replacement parts from one company and they are not cheap. Toyota parts can be got from lots of places and are cheaper than Ashcroft parts. Factor in as well that if you take a Land Rover axle and stick ashcroft shafts, CVs, and lockers in then you still have a Land Rover casing, ring and pinion etc etc.

Also, how often do you hear Land Rover owners say 'my lockers arn't working, the seals gone on the ARB'? Seems to be all the time!

Of course the advantage of Ashcroft is it's all nut and bolt work to fit, you can do it in stages, it's a well trodden path that you can't really go worng with, they hold their money, your not changing any of the cars geometry or relying on someones back street fabrication and you still have stock parts for brakes, wheels, steering, they have replaceable swivels etc. However as you already have the Toyota stuff fitted and working your kind of already past that stage!

[ToyRoverlander]

Keep the LC80 axles! Just way better in any respect. Parts availability is fantastic, like has been said longfields are available if stronger cv's are needed.

The rear locker is slow to engage as it has 6 splines so to speak, so you need a max 60degree rotational difference between the left and right wheel for it to engage. So read the terrain and make a sharp turn before needing the rear locker engaged. Front locker has a very fine spline so locks very quickly. Do you have some kind of sealant or gasket between the rear locker housing and the diff case? If not, get some. It's aluminium on steel, and we all know what can happen. The locker housing can basically fall apart to dust. Also, extend the breather lines on it and keep the electrical connector full of vaseline. Done this way those lockers are, and remain, very very reliable.

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned yet, the LC80 axles have better bigger brakes. Though the rear calipers need periodical maintanance to keep the sliding pins working smoothly.

Those 4.1 gears are just perfect for 35" tires

[Boris113]

Thanks chaps, great advice - LC 80 axles it is then

It would be nice to keep LR axles and have generic parts/no insurance issues but the cost is crazy, even if done over a period of time. I can always sell the LC axles later if there is a change of plan.

The axles have never received any maintenance so a minor stripdown, rebuild of the lockers with silicone/breathers and a check of the brakes will be done before fitting. Assuming there is no further work then I will throw them under so I can get shot of one truck and free up some space but the rebuilt 90 won't be on the road for a while so there's time to ponder about the radius arms. Other than that they will stay standard for now, I don't have the time or fab skills do carry out the impressive conversion that Cynic-Al has done to his set.

ToyRoverlander that's interesting, I wondered why they were a little slow to engage when driving in a straight line! And yes, 35's will appear soon...maybe even 37s

A friend suggested I take it up to a local alignment place to get some lasers on the axles and check that the brackets are straight, crab-steer is nice on a JCB but not so desirable on a road-going vehicle! Other than that it's just a case of an engineers report for the insurance, thats a while away yet however!

Pictures of the swap to follow once I get back from West-Africa and off these bloody crutches!

[Cynic-al]

On 37" tyres and lifted suspension you wouldnt notice if the axles were 45 degrees out. Lol

If you want I can send you the drawings for my radius arms. I had to do them all to get them laser cut anyway. If you can't do it yourself I'm sure there is someone local to you who can

[twodoorgaz]

Hi folks. Looks like I've sorted this issue with a Stage 1 front axle now, though I hope this thread continues to prove to be useful to others.

[Boris113]

On 37" tyres and lifted suspension you wouldnt notice if the axles were 45 degrees out. Lol

If you want I can send you the drawings for my radius arms. I had to do them all to get them laser cut anyway. If you can't do it yourself I'm sure there is someone local to you who can

37" is where I would like to end up following approval from SWMBO for tyre expenditure but that is a long way down the line! If the 90 is particularly under-geared on 285/75s after LC80 axle-fitting then there is a functional 1.2 transfer box in the shed that can be fitted to adjust final drive ratios accordingly.

Cynic-al, if you don't mind sending me the drawings that would be much appreciated, PM inbound in the next few mins Out of curiosity and having re-read your build thread a few times, I can't work out the top-side measurement of a Defender radius arm in relation to the underside of the bulkhead outrigger vs an RRC radius arm in relation to the equivalent chassis member - do you think on full bump travel the custom-built radius arm would hit the bulkhead outrigger on a Defender chassis?

The other option to solve the issue of LC 80 series track-rod v LR radius arm clearance is to fit a high-steer kit and retain all standard LR suspension linkages. Looking at his build thread, ToyRoverlander has a rather tasty Hellfire Fabworks kit that could solve all of the problems in one go assuming the steering arms don't get in the way of a standard defender suspension set-up. Track/drag rod are easily shortened/welded so that is less of a concern for my pigeon-turd style welding compared with building radius arms which for safety reasons I would out-source to a grown-up!

Time to grab the tape measure methinks

Thanks all, Harry

[Cynic-al]

I will make the cad drawings available tonight if I remember . I have no idea how a 90 outrigger compares to an RRC, sorry, however they did foul mine. This could be solved by thinning my radius arms at the chassis end to match the existing land rover hockey sticks as mine are far thicker than they need to be. This could easily be checked by printing the drawings 1:1 scale and sticking on card and cutting out before you cut steel.

Hope that helps!

[twodoorgaz]

Well, I landed a Stage 1 axle in the end. Probably cost me more in the long run by the time I've added discs, but hey ho.

[Bowie69]

If you want to off load the 'yota axles, gimme a shout.

[twodoorgaz]

Oops - my bad. I've replied (twice) to someone else's thread on Toyota axles rather than my own, God knows how I've managed to do that. Sorry Bowie.

[Bowie69]

Oh lol, no worries Not sure how you managed it, but the internets are better for it I am sure

[twodoorgaz]

No idea - bit embarrassing. Just randomly started posting on someone's thread like a weirdo.

My thread was the one below, which is now superfluous having collected my stage 1 bits.

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=95690&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

[Boris113]

So I've had a few more thoughts on this, if anyone has any suggestions it would be much appreciated Purely theoretical for now, once I get back to UK for Christmas I'll get underneath with a tape measure but have at least come up with a few options...

1. Print off the drawings of Astro-Al's radius arms which he has kindly sent me, hold in place and test for clearance between upper face of radius arm and underside of bulkhead outrigger on full bump travel. Assuming the clearance is ok then bribe a responsible adult with large enough welder to make a set...my little one isn't powerful enough and I'm not confident in my skills to fab something safety critical.

2. Turn track rod upside down. Currently the track rod sits in the same way a Defender unit does and the TRE's are lowered into \ / shaped holes in the swivel housings. Would it would be possible to fill the TRE holes in the swivel housing with weld and then mill the weld out the other way to form a / \ shape? The track rod would then be fitted from below and lifted into place. It would sit lower down by approx 2.5 inches which would put it about the same height as a standard Defender version in relation to the underside of the axle casing. Not convinced on the idea of welding to cast but it would only act as a filler material and large washers could be used to stop the castellated nut from pulling back through the swivel along with the weld.

3. Drill tapers in swivel housing from \ / to a | | shape, find rose/heim joints that screw into the ends of the existing track rod and bolt the eyes through the newly drilled swivel holes, either above or below depending on clearance with radius arms. This seems a lot more simple than option 2 and apart from 2 rose joints, retains all standard parts but how would the joints fare in an application such as this in comparison with a standard TRE?

If you want to off load the 'yota axles, gimme a shout.

Sure thing still toying with the idea of throwing an Ashlocker into the standard LR back axle and upgrading shafts as they break, it would remove issues with homemade suspension components and trying to get insurance etc - I'll let you know if I do give up with the LC axles but am pretty hell-bent on getting them to fit if possible.

Harry