ronnie_rotten Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I've read the appropriate threads and still felt the need to start my own. Sorry! Td5 Defender. Problem: appalling brakes Known facts: new rear caliper,old one was leaking badly for a long time (previous owner) What I've tried: Bleeding in correct order using tube into bottle of brake fluid technique as I am but one man. Results of this was tonnes of air coming out of both near side calipers and little from the off side. Noted tiny bubbles in resevoir with the engine running, seem to have stopped now. Pedal doesn't seem to go hard as I expected when pumping and engine off, but suction on the vacuum pipe suggest some servo functionality? Not able to pump as much fluid through the bleeders as I expected, I was planning on emptying and refilling the res several times, only had to top up twice. Where we are now: road test resulted in still rubbish brakes, have left the truck front end up on ramps to allow air to the reservoir over night. Did I miss anything? What indicates a knackered master cylinder? There's no fluid in the footwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Did you have a one way valve on your bleed line? If not, i reckon you'll struggle to bleed them effectively by yourself. Get a gunson eezibleed and it'll make the job a doddle forever more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souster Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Bubbles in the reservoir when the pedal is pressed indicates poor master cylinder I beleive. Check all caliper pistons are free and not sticking. Good quality brake pads make a big difference I found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Did you have a one way valve on your bleed line? If not, i reckon you'll struggle to bleed them effectively by yourself. Get a gunson eezibleed and it'll make the job a doddle forever more. No one way valve, just a rubber pipe going up and then down into a bottle of dot 4. I figured that would do the job of stopping the air returning to the caliper. Couldn't get the pipe to fill with fluid though, just bubbles! I even started jamming the pedal with a stick and then tightening the nipple before letting the pedal back up again. Yes easy bleed would be good. Can't get one anywhere near here though. Local motor factors couldn't even supply a 1,2,3,5 headlight relay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Bubbles in the reservoir when the pedal is pressed indicates poor master cylinder I beleive. Check all caliper pistons are free and not sticking. Good quality brake pads make a big difference I found. I hadn't thought there might not be enough movement due to thin pads... but considering what the last guy let slide you might be onto something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 If you're not closing the bleed nipple before releasing the pedal, you're going to just pull the air back in again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 If you're not closing the bleed nipple before releasing the pedal, you're going to just pull the air back in again. Yeah, but I thought I'd be able to push enough air down the tube that when it drew back in fluid would rise up and eventually the tube would be full of fluid. Essentially the air bubble getting smaller each time til it was all fluid. Maybe the pipe's too long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Maybe I misunderstood what the guy on youtube was on about. Made sense at the time though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 +1 get a ezibleed off ebay or a vacuum bleeder, they work very well ime. if you do get a vacuum bleeder though, wrap all the bleed nipple threads in ptfe tape before you start or you will get nowhere....(a good practice imho anyway) having said all that, if your sure there is no air in the lines and it is still spongey then it will be the master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 https://youtu.be/1wwq1Vlk4Wg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Where abouts are you ronnie_rotten? If you're anywhere near SN7 I'm more than happy to come and give you a hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Where abouts are you ronnie_rotten? If you're anywhere near SN7 I'm more than happy to come and give you a hand You are a gent, sir. Alas, I'm in the west of ireland! Just me, the donkeys and the bog flies!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Bugger, you're not even within driving distance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Bugger, you're not even within driving distance Life was simpler when I lived in the real world.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Am I right in thinking a 300tdi disco master cylinder will fit a td5 110? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 No disco is a different servo fitting. Now I've got a similar issue to you having replaced all 4 calipers and master cylinder, 02 td5 90.... I'm baffled as to why I can't get a hard pedal. I'm inclined to believe my New master cylinder is duff but loathed to fork out for another new once to test the theory, only thing I've not looked at is the balance valve thingy on the bulkhead, but this shouldn't give such a soft pedal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Dang. I thought they looked the same. I know not of this balance valve thingy of which you speak. Looks like I've got more reading to do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/221192054009-0-1/s-l1000.jpg Brake compensator valve... not sure 110's have them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Air in the fluid aside, are these ABS equipped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Ronnie, there is one way of single hand bleeding. This is only possible if your car does not have ABS. You will need :- 1 litre piston oil pump similar to that used to put oil into a gearbox but with a discharge hose (1/4") downsized to tightly fit over the bleed nipple, (When I am doing this method on my Disco I even use a 3/8" pipe clamp on the nipple as you are going to generate considerable hydraulic pressure). 2-3 litres of new DOT 4 brake fluid. 1 off 2 metre length of 1/4" id plastic hose. 1 off clean and dry 2 litre Coca cola plastic bottle. Drill a hole in the cap big enough to fit the clear hose in it, allow it a tad oversize to allow air to escape. Undo the hose line for the REAR brakes at the MASTER CYLINDER - and push the clear hose onto the swaged end the other end of the clear hose drop into the 2 litre plastic coke bottle, fill this with just under a 1/4 of a litre of brake fluid and ensure that the clear hose is below and in the fluid. Fill the piston pump up with clean brake fluid, ensure that all the air is ejected by aiming it vertically up and and then, without allowing any air to be entrained connect it to the FURTHEST rear brake nipple - normally the rear passenger brake. Pump at least 3/4 of a litre of brake fluid through the system- this will take some effort - it will be collected in the plastic bottle at the master cylinder. Refill the piston pump and repeat for the drivers side rear brake. Remember at this point to empty 1+3/4 litres out of the brake fluid out of the 2 litre collection bottle. Refit the rear brake line at the master cylinder and disconnect the front brake line. Repeat the above process starting at the front passenger side then the drivers side. All air will now be expelled from the brake line system(s). Reconnect the front brake line to the master cylinder but do not tighten it fully, crack open the rear brake line again and allow fluid to bleed from the master cylinder at both the front and rear brake line connections to ensure that there is no air allowed into the front or rear the brake lines, tighten them both, wash down any brake fluid that may have been allowed to spill on the paintwork with clean cold water Top up the master cylinder. Job done, you should now have a full pedal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Mines not got ABS. I have a suspicion that its the new master cylinder being duff as the pedal will sink pretty much all the way to where the rear brakes callipers start to kick in, if you pump it really Aggressivly then kinda hold it, it sometimes stays firm, but then all you have to do is lightly lift a tiny bit of pressure off the pedal and it will start to sink again, there's no leaks and for the amount the pedal moves that's gotta be a lot of air in the system to cause just a symptom, as oil isn't leaking out everywhere the fluid must be bi-passing in the master...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 No abs here. At least there's no warning light on the dash. If I had abs, I guarantee the light would be on!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 Mines not got ABS. I have a suspicion that its the new master cylinder being duff as the pedal will sink pretty much all the way to where the rear brakes callipers start to kick in, if you pump it really Aggressivly then kinda hold it, it sometimes stays firm, but then all you have to do is lightly lift a tiny bit of pressure off the pedal and it will start to sink again, there's no leaks and for the amount the pedal moves that's gotta be a lot of air in the system to cause just a symptom, as oil isn't leaking out everywhere the fluid must be bi-passing in the master...? It does sound like we have similar problems. I couldn't believe the amount of air flowing up the pipe from the bleeder. I'll have another mess about with it today to see if sitting nose up has achieved anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I used a self bleeder the first time I bled the system out, but figured that there was air being sucked back in around the nipple thread, so that's when I recruited the GF to pump the pedal and do it the old fashioned way, improved slightly but it still wont pump up hard, my 86" LR90 with pretty much the same brake set-up apart from it has a G valve goes rock hard after half a pump so I'm aiming for a similar response... I've just emailed my supplier to ask if he'll take the original master back if I buy another to try - never had this problem before after building up a handful of new brake systems. Non ABS LR brake systems are so simple that you've only ever really got 3 potential problems 1)air trapped 2)pishing leak 3) failed master cylinder. I've only ever had 1 piston seal fail on a front caliper, I've had 1 pipe blow out when I was pumping the pedal, and I've had to replace I think 6 master cylinders due to soggy brake pedal/inability... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 For more years than I care to remember I've done the up / down shout at some 'willing' assistant and its always been fine but fairly recently I bought a 20 quid vacuum bleeder from e-bay. this kind of thing.. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hand-Held-Brake-Clutch-Bleeder-Tester-Set-Bleed-Kit-Vacuum-Pump-Car-Motorbike-/271479478406?hash=item3f35701886:g:EBIAAOSwLVZViAo6 Its made my life a lot easier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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